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It is literally 20 times as many people killed every year as are killed in mass shootings but you can't get anyone to care at all about it. Blame the victim, d

It is literally 20 times as many people killed every year as are killed in mass shootings but you can't get anyone to care at all about it. Blame the victim, did you see what they were wearing?

cindyllm 1y ago
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rjbwork 1y ago
Even moreso than guns, the automobile industry has been waging an incredibly successful propaganda campaign for over a century now equating the ownership and use of a personal automobile with freedom.
- snapcaster 1y ago
  This is true, people having a complete meltdown to the idea of walkable cities was very telling
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    It's because it's being peddled by the same "oh, I know how we'll use government to fix this problem that isn't top 10 on anyone's list" types who's in previous generations gave us unwalkable cities, unaffordable housing, and the modern urban-suburban hellscape. While individual points are supported or resisted individually and by individuals, when you sum it up on a population level it's like a gut reaction against listening to someone who's lead you astray before. Basically the people pushing changes lack the political and cultural capital to see them through because the capital was wasted for naught in decades past.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
  Have you tried to move around US w/o it? As propaganda goes, it is pretty spot on.
  - rglullis 1y ago
    What is cause and what is effect, and which of those do people can control?
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
      Eh, I guess I am talking to militant anti-SUV people. Allow me to rephrase: - Your environment imposes restrictions upon you - Even if you can control your actions, optimal choice is to move within those restrictions - Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal - Some people choose the optimal path - Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen Good grief, why am I bothering with nonsense so early?
      - rglullis 1y ago
        > Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal. Some people choose the optimal path. Optimal for what? > Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen. Person A chooses the "optimal path" (according to whatever definition of "optimal" A has) for their benefit. Their "optimal path" puts person B at risk and forces them to deal with unwanted costs and changes their environment. Do you think that person B is wrong to be upset about the choice of person A or not?
        A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
        << Optimal for what? Optimal for the environment I am living in. << Do you think that person B is wrong to be upset about the choice of person A or not? Oh boy. I am not responsible for you. By this tirade, you only demonstrate to me you are willing to make suboptimal choices so that you can feel better about yourself. That is cool, but don't drag me down with you. By your logic, each time you breathe out CO2, it forces me to deal with unwanted costs and a change to my environment. Can you hear how ridiculous that argument is at its core?
snapcaster 1y ago
My theory is its because what we respond to is _not_ number of deaths but instead "number of deaths in excess of what we've priced in". In the standard american mental model we assume there are going to be lots of road deaths so nobody really responds to it
jonathanknight 1y ago
Wow - I think the problem there is that it is ONLY 20 times the number killed in mass shootings.
tomasphan 1y ago
We care about control. Mass shootings are random and scary and totally out of victim’s control. People say “that car crash wouldn’t have happened to me I’m a better driver and I pay attention”. Which is true to some degree. Same reason why flying is scary because you can’t even see what’s coming.
Zambyte 1y ago
The reason it is hard to get people to care is the obvious intent difference. People don't tend to get behind the wheel with the conscious intent of killing people, even if they make poor decisions that lead to that. Drivers killing people is much more relatable to the average person, so it's hard to get the average person to have a rational conversation about it.
- hackingonempty 1y ago
  The situation is the same with drunk driving. Most people can relate to just wanting to get home after having a couple drinks. There was little enforcement of existing laws. Yet the USA was able to turn things around, the culture has changed, fatalities have been slowly dropping, and even police chiefs can no longer talk their way out of going to jail when caught.
Guid_NewGuid 1y ago
Funnily enough just like guns the reactions in this thread seem to more or less be "no way to stop this says only nation where this happens regularly".

It is literally 20 times as many people killed every year as are killed in mass shootings but you can't get anyone to care at all about it. Blame the victim, did you see what they were wearing?

cindyllm 1y ago

[dead]

rjbwork 1y ago

Even moreso than guns, the automobile industry has been waging an incredibly successful propaganda campaign for over a century now equating the ownership and use of a personal automobile with freedom.

snapcaster 1y ago
This is true, people having a complete meltdown to the idea of walkable cities was very telling
- potato3732842 1y ago
  It's because it's being peddled by the same "oh, I know how we'll use government to fix this problem that isn't top 10 on anyone's list" types who's in previous generations gave us unwalkable cities, unaffordable housing, and the modern urban-suburban hellscape. While individual points are supported or resisted individually and by individuals, when you sum it up on a population level it's like a gut reaction against listening to someone who's lead you astray before. Basically the people pushing changes lack the political and cultural capital to see them through because the capital was wasted for naught in decades past.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
Have you tried to move around US w/o it? As propaganda goes, it is pretty spot on.
- rglullis 1y ago
  What is cause and what is effect, and which of those do people can control?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    Eh, I guess I am talking to militant anti-SUV people. Allow me to rephrase: - Your environment imposes restrictions upon you - Even if you can control your actions, optimal choice is to move within those restrictions - Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal - Some people choose the optimal path - Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen Good grief, why am I bothering with nonsense so early?
    - rglullis 1y ago
      > Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal. Some people choose the optimal path. Optimal for what? > Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen. Person A chooses the "optimal path" (according to whatever definition of "optimal" A has) for their benefit. Their "optimal path" puts person B at risk and forces them to deal with unwanted costs and changes their environment. Do you think that person B is wrong to be upset about the choice of person A or not?
      - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
        << Optimal for what? Optimal for the environment I am living in. << Do you think that person B is wrong to be upset about the choice of person A or not? Oh boy. I am not responsible for you. By this tirade, you only demonstrate to me you are willing to make suboptimal choices so that you can feel better about yourself. That is cool, but don't drag me down with you. By your logic, each time you breathe out CO2, it forces me to deal with unwanted costs and a change to my environment. Can you hear how ridiculous that argument is at its core?

snapcaster 1y ago

My theory is its because what we respond to is _not_ number of deaths but instead "number of deaths in excess of what we've priced in". In the standard american mental model we assume there are going to be lots of road deaths so nobody really responds to it

jonathanknight 1y ago

Wow - I think the problem there is that it is ONLY 20 times the number killed in mass shootings.

tomasphan 1y ago

We care about control. Mass shootings are random and scary and totally out of victim’s control. People say “that car crash wouldn’t have happened to me I’m a better driver and I pay attention”. Which is true to some degree. Same reason why flying is scary because you can’t even see what’s coming.

Zambyte 1y ago

The reason it is hard to get people to care is the obvious intent difference. People don't tend to get behind the wheel with the conscious intent of killing people, even if they make poor decisions that lead to that. Drivers killing people is much more relatable to the average person, so it's hard to get the average person to have a rational conversation about it.

hackingonempty 1y ago
The situation is the same with drunk driving. Most people can relate to just wanting to get home after having a couple drinks. There was little enforcement of existing laws. Yet the USA was able to turn things around, the culture has changed, fatalities have been slowly dropping, and even police chiefs can no longer talk their way out of going to jail when caught.

Guid_NewGuid 1y ago

Funnily enough just like guns the reactions in this thread seem to more or less be "no way to stop this says only nation where this happens regularly".