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- fragile under load and very difficult to debug SSR issues - inconsistent behavior between hosted and self hosted versions of the same code - horrible build
by throw-10-8 1y ago
- fragile under load and very difficult to debug SSR issues
- inconsistent behavior between hosted and self hosted versions of the same code
- horrible build times, like laughably bad multi-minute builds for trivial code bases
- crappy directory based routing system with lots of weird gotchas
- schizo identity JAMstack -> serverless -> ssr -> now its microvms + ai
- multiple hilariously long running GH issues where the dev team is thrashing around trying to debug their own black box framework
- "framework" that barely provides any of the primitives necessary to build web apps
- major breaking changes around core features like routing that require painful migrations
- general sloppiness, churn, and insecurity that comes from being part of the nodejs ecosystem
Thats not even getting into all of the shady patterns vercel uses to lock you into their overpriced hosting.
I've been a part of multiple teams that decided to build apps using NextJS, and while the FE is not my responsibility I typically got pulled in to help troubleshoot random issues. It was a complete waste of time in almost every case, and in one case resulted in the entire FE team being let go because they were unable to ship anything on time.
- molszanski 1y agoTry Astro my friend. React SSR with none of that next bs
- throw-10-8 1y agoI've heard good things, what would you say is the killer reasons to justify being the nodejs ecosystem vs something more purpose built for ssr like php?
- molszanski 1y agoAs easy as php for simple stuff. And can do complex SPA stuff.
- WA 1y agoYou lost me at React SSR. That is part of the complexity bs. React is a lib for mapping state to the DOM. There's no DOM on the server. So React on the server is 95% useless for that purpose and hence, overengineered to create a bit of HTML and send it down the wire. I like the simplicity of Hono and use their html helper to write good old HTML that is send to the client.
- throw-10-8 1y agoThis is the vercelization of react peeking through, that people even associate react with ssr is an anti-pattern.
- deepriverfish 1y agohow do you manage the application state with Hono? I saw their home page and it didn't mention anything about it.
- WA 1y agoHono is a server-side framework like Express. So same way like you handle application state in most server-side multi-page web apps: You just fetch whatever you need from the DB per request. "State management" really isn't that much of an issue on the server. Only on clients, when you need to map state changes to DOM updates.
- molszanski 1y agoYou can render html with astro without react. Plain old html templates with options
- fuzzy_biscuit 1y agoAstro is not tied to React. You can choose your framework.
- alsiola 1y agoUsed Astro for a pro bono project. Found it fantastic, well documented, provides solutions for the hard parts, gets out of the way for the easy parts. Documentation is well written, but I find I don't need it much because mostly it works how I would expect.
- dbbk 1y agoNot to mention their braindead decision to aggressively cache everything as much as possible, which they're now trying to undo, but still haven't shipped.
- davedx 1y agoYeah matches my experience. It’s just so much complexity just to get SSR. I’ve worked at places that used it for b2b SaaS apps with no public web part, so the SSR is just a big liability… whyyyyy
- throw-10-8 1y agoReminds me of VC backed framework Meteor that was attempting to do full stack JS and collapsed under its own tech debt.
- fkyoureadthedoc 1y agoI'd honestly love to use something that delivered on Meteor's goals. Next.js ain't it though lol.
- throw-10-8 1y agoI was pretty involved in their stack back in the day, it was a good alternative to Django at the time for simple plug and play admin apps, and to this day i think they had the simplest OAuth setup of any framework I've used. The real issues were the super tight coupling with MongoDB and their decision to roll their own package ecosystem instead of just using npm from day one.
- gr4vityWall 1y agoI think Meteor is finally starting to fully overcome the tech debt from the second half of the last decade. They're in a recent Node.js release, and the next version will integrate a modern bundler (Rspack) in its tooling. Lots of apps are still stuck in Meteor 2.x hell because of the dependency on Fibers though.
- flowerlad 1y agoI use it for my web site where SSR is critical for SEO. For app development I don’t use Nextjs. I think it is designed for web sites (as opposed to web apps) and it is great for this purpose
- loliver666 1y agoI've been building loads of stuff with it for years and never experienced any of this. Sounds like a YOU problem.
- throw-10-8 1y agomultiple other comments sharing my experience and expanding on it.
- loliver666 1y agoIf its so crappy how's it so popular?
- throw-10-8 1y agoThey spend a lot of money on marketing.
- fatbird 1y agoThe core React documentation explicitly points you to nextjs and says "this is how you should build react apps."
- loliver666 1y agoI mean, that's good enough for me.