5 ms·

These days I look somewhat disdainfully upon heavy drinkers, not only do they often disturb others when drinking (being noisy, obtrusive, drunk driving, etc.),

These days I look somewhat disdainfully upon heavy drinkers, not only do they often disturb others when drinking (being noisy, obtrusive, drunk driving, etc.), but even ignoring long term health effects, I'm in my 40s now and it's definitely a factor too, but for at least a day after even very moderate drinking I know my mental faculties are reduced, so I can only imagine how much theirs are. I very rarely have alcohol these days, it's just not worth the feeling of fatigue and brain fogginess the next day that's pretty much guaranteed for me afterwards, even from just 2 beers. I suspect it's not unique to South Africa, but there is a somewhat pervasive culture here of excessive drinking. Back when I lived in a complex, I would often see people pitch up in the common area at midday with a cooler box full of beer, and basically sit there for the next 6 hours just drinking, what a waste of a day in my view. And most people don't even raise an eyebrow when someone casually mentions in the workplace this is how they spent their weekend. That the police here are both incompetent and readily bribe-able also makes the effects of excessive drinking particularly pronounced, like traffic lights being regularly knocked over.

ljm 1y ago
As soon as a hangover shifted from an acute headache to a day or more of drowsiness I started to substantially limit the amount I drink. You can't tackle that with paracetamol or caffeine and it's not worth it any more, and that's just from what would consider casual drinking (a few pints at the pub) in the UK. I can't imagine how badly drunk you have to get to swallow something like a toothpick without knowing.
naldb 1y ago
Spending all day drinking and socialising is a waste of a day? As opposed to what, working? Or maybe watching Netflix at home?
- mythrwy 1y ago
  Commenting on the internet is the best way to spend the day. Obviously.
- jonathanlydall 1y ago
  Socialising is good, but consuming large quantities of alcohol as part of that seems wasteful to me as you're also intoxicating (which is another word for poisoning) yourself at the same time, which probably means you have less time afterwards due to possibly sleeping in more the next day and even after that still not as inclined as you normally would be for doing anything else (perhaps like at least chores). Then you're possibly putting on weight from drinking (having lots of beers definitely contributes to getting a "beer belly"), which is another potential health issue, which although can be mitigated by doing physical exercise (which you should be doing anyway), part of your time exercising is to just undo the "damage" from the drinking meaning you need to spend even more time exercising now. Perhaps instead consider other healthier (or at least less unhealthy) forms of socializing, like board games, multiplayer computer games, outdoor physical group activities, etc. As a business owner, I ultimately get more money if I manage to get in some extra work in on weekends or after hours, but between family, friends, children's extra murals and generally managing that I don't burn out, I absolutely don't have time to waste sitting around intoxicating myself for half the day. Oh, and most people I know aren't proud to say they spent all day watching TV, although I confess that I used to do it on occasion when I was younger with less responsibilities. TV watching can be as good an activity as any when you need to take a break from anything mentally or physically challenging and the negative health effects do pale in comparison to the consumption of large amounts of alcohol.
potato3732842 1y ago
I barely drink anymore at my age but I don't look down on other people for doing so. It's their time and their body who am I to tell them what to do with it?
- rayiner 1y ago
  > who am I to tell them what to do? You’re an (apparently high functioning) member of society who has a moral obligation to help police individuals who negatively affect the people around them. People don’t drink in padded rooms. You can make society better by policing individual choices. E.g., in part by policing alcohol and caffeine consumption, Mormon men live 10 years longer than white men in the U.S. generally: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer/ https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves....
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    Except mormons don’t police it; they make it shameful and morally wrong. Most western societies rely too heavily on laws to govern every aspect of their society when laws and police are there for the extremes; the rest must be managed by shaming and talking to people who break the unwritten moral rules. The reason for this is that societal morals evolve, change and adapt more organically than any rigid bureaucratic processes can. You don’t want law based dress codes beyond a certain bare minimum (ie. naked), but instead you want people to govern themselves and be encouraged to tell others off for dressing inappropriately around others in the community. Western liberal societies in particular have slid down into depravity because we’ve made it _immoral_ to be individual moralists. If it’s not against the law, it’s all acceptable. A man that abuses drugs and lives off welfare all his life is as lawful as a man that works hard every day for himself and his family and pays taxes that contribute to supporting the former’s lifestyle. But they are not morally the same, and it’s obvious to most of us. But we risk losing our livelihoods if we say so out loud.
    - rangestransform 1y ago
      Philosophically, what do I owe society if I exist without my consent? What is actually morally wrong about opting out and choosing to live on the kindness of society, if society is willingly kind to me through charity or laws? The social contract is a good place to start to think about this but still doesn’t address where someone’s debt to society comes from, besides not actively harming other humans.
fragmede 1y ago
for better or worse, a combo of cheers and zbiotics actually seems to work to reduce hangovers
- jghn 1y ago
  My friends group has gone down the ZBiotics route. Some of us swear by it, others don't find much help. I've taken it a bit further by adding a handful of other products that purport to have similar benefits via different mechanisms. My experience as someone deep in their middle age is that it seems to have turned the clock back about 10 years or so in terms of the next day effects.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
mamonster 1y ago
One of the things that interests me is that, by all accounts, people used to drink ENORMOUS amounts of alcohol prior to the 20th century. The most common figure I saw is that Americans used to drink like 7 gallons of PURE alcohol per year. That's 26 liters of pure alcohol. I dunno what beer is like in the US, in Switzerland 4.5% alcohol content is standard. So they were drinking like 577 liters of beer a year, 1.6 l per day. 500kcal or so (so like 1/5 of reference for a "normal" man) coming from alcohol.

ljm 1y ago

As soon as a hangover shifted from an acute headache to a day or more of drowsiness I started to substantially limit the amount I drink. You can't tackle that with paracetamol or caffeine and it's not worth it any more, and that's just from what would consider casual drinking (a few pints at the pub) in the UK. I can't imagine how badly drunk you have to get to swallow something like a toothpick without knowing.

naldb 1y ago

Spending all day drinking and socialising is a waste of a day? As opposed to what, working? Or maybe watching Netflix at home?

mythrwy 1y ago
Commenting on the internet is the best way to spend the day. Obviously.
jonathanlydall 1y ago
Socialising is good, but consuming large quantities of alcohol as part of that seems wasteful to me as you're also intoxicating (which is another word for poisoning) yourself at the same time, which probably means you have less time afterwards due to possibly sleeping in more the next day and even after that still not as inclined as you normally would be for doing anything else (perhaps like at least chores). Then you're possibly putting on weight from drinking (having lots of beers definitely contributes to getting a "beer belly"), which is another potential health issue, which although can be mitigated by doing physical exercise (which you should be doing anyway), part of your time exercising is to just undo the "damage" from the drinking meaning you need to spend even more time exercising now. Perhaps instead consider other healthier (or at least less unhealthy) forms of socializing, like board games, multiplayer computer games, outdoor physical group activities, etc. As a business owner, I ultimately get more money if I manage to get in some extra work in on weekends or after hours, but between family, friends, children's extra murals and generally managing that I don't burn out, I absolutely don't have time to waste sitting around intoxicating myself for half the day. Oh, and most people I know aren't proud to say they spent all day watching TV, although I confess that I used to do it on occasion when I was younger with less responsibilities. TV watching can be as good an activity as any when you need to take a break from anything mentally or physically challenging and the negative health effects do pale in comparison to the consumption of large amounts of alcohol.

potato3732842 1y ago

I barely drink anymore at my age but I don't look down on other people for doing so. It's their time and their body who am I to tell them what to do with it?

rayiner 1y ago
> who am I to tell them what to do? You’re an (apparently high functioning) member of society who has a moral obligation to help police individuals who negatively affect the people around them. People don’t drink in padded rooms. You can make society better by policing individual choices. E.g., in part by policing alcohol and caffeine consumption, Mormon men live 10 years longer than white men in the U.S. generally: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer/ https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves....
- simianparrot 1y ago
  Except mormons don’t police it; they make it shameful and morally wrong. Most western societies rely too heavily on laws to govern every aspect of their society when laws and police are there for the extremes; the rest must be managed by shaming and talking to people who break the unwritten moral rules. The reason for this is that societal morals evolve, change and adapt more organically than any rigid bureaucratic processes can. You don’t want law based dress codes beyond a certain bare minimum (ie. naked), but instead you want people to govern themselves and be encouraged to tell others off for dressing inappropriately around others in the community. Western liberal societies in particular have slid down into depravity because we’ve made it _immoral_ to be individual moralists. If it’s not against the law, it’s all acceptable. A man that abuses drugs and lives off welfare all his life is as lawful as a man that works hard every day for himself and his family and pays taxes that contribute to supporting the former’s lifestyle. But they are not morally the same, and it’s obvious to most of us. But we risk losing our livelihoods if we say so out loud.
  - rangestransform 1y ago
    Philosophically, what do I owe society if I exist without my consent? What is actually morally wrong about opting out and choosing to live on the kindness of society, if society is willingly kind to me through charity or laws? The social contract is a good place to start to think about this but still doesn’t address where someone’s debt to society comes from, besides not actively harming other humans.

fragmede 1y ago

for better or worse, a combo of cheers and zbiotics actually seems to work to reduce hangovers

jghn 1y ago
My friends group has gone down the ZBiotics route. Some of us swear by it, others don't find much help. I've taken it a bit further by adding a handful of other products that purport to have similar benefits via different mechanisms. My experience as someone deep in their middle age is that it seems to have turned the clock back about 10 years or so in terms of the next day effects.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

mamonster 1y ago

One of the things that interests me is that, by all accounts, people used to drink ENORMOUS amounts of alcohol prior to the 20th century. The most common figure I saw is that Americans used to drink like 7 gallons of PURE alcohol per year. That's 26 liters of pure alcohol. I dunno what beer is like in the US, in Switzerland 4.5% alcohol content is standard. So they were drinking like 577 liters of beer a year, 1.6 l per day. 500kcal or so (so like 1/5 of reference for a "normal" man) coming from alcohol.