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Pretty sure it is NOT the definition of that law, but my own definition is: You make a meal only of basic ingredients. A basic ingredient is something that does
by littlecranky67 1y ago
Pretty sure it is NOT the definition of that law, but my own definition is: You make a meal only of basic ingredients. A basic ingredient is something that does not have an ingredient list on its packaging. I.e. Fruit, vegetables, eggs, meat and fish does not come with an ingredient list. There are some exceptions like dairy products (butter, yoghurt, cheese) which are okay to use.
- defraudbah 1y agonestle downvoted you
- defraudbah 1y agowhelp, nestle is on me, you will not believe guyz how many upvotes and downvotes i get on this one
- eisen_matrix 1y agoThis is based on Nova definition probably. - Unprocessed or minimally processed foods (fresh or frozen products, yoghurts, etc) - Processed culinary ingredients (oil, vinegar) - Processed foods (foods created from combining elements of the first 2 groups using typical cooking processes, like bread, pasta, some meats, canned vegetables) - Ultra-processed foods (foods requiring industrial processing).
- robertlagrant 1y agoWhat's the minimally processed food that bread is made of?
- danielheath 1y agoFlour is processed from grains
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> What's the minimally processed food that bread is made of? Flour is minimally processed, Nova Group 1, if it’s simply milled and separated. If it’s prepared with industrial solvents, or bleached, it goes straight to Group 4.
- robertlagrant 1y agoIs flour considered food at all? It sounds more like an ingredient than a food.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> sounds more like an ingredient than a food Nova doesn’t distinguish between ingredients and food [1]. (It needs to be able to do this. UPFs are defined, in part, by almost lacking low-Nova inputs.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification
- IAmBroom 1y agoYou can eat it and survive. Cooking it first is a big improvement, but the same is true of carrots, IMO.
- eisen_matrix 1y agoAFAIK, whole-wheat flour is considered minimally processed. Of course bread is not equal, so it was more about home-made/sourdough types, not high-processed, shelf-stable ones.
- dpassens 1y agoFlour, presumably.
- chithanh 1y agoBread is a bit of an exception here, as it undergoes extensive mechanical (milling), biochemical (fermentation) and thermal (baking) processing. Yet it does not count as ultra-processed. Bread is made from dough, which is mainly made from flour (the "minimally processed" food), which is made from grains (the unprocessed food)
- robertlagrant 1y agoIt definitely stood out as a bit of a confounding example. That combined with the emotive language used in the classification names makes me a bit wary of this way of classifying food.
- DrewADesign 1y agoI imagine it’s got more to do with ingredients than processing. Local restaurants might make fresh bread with a bleached flour product that has various dough conditioning agents added to it, while puffed rice absolutely requires an industrial process to create and has one ingredient.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> puffed rice absolutely requires an industrial process “Traditional methods to puff or pop rice include frying in oil or salt. Commercial puffed rice is usually made by heating rice kernels under high pressure in the presence of steam, though the method of manufacture varies widely” [1]. If I had to guess, the commercial stuff is more thoroughly and homogeneously gelatinized. That, in turn, probably raises its glycemic index. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffed_rice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffed_rice
- DrewADesign 1y agoThe texture is completely different. The industrial method involves heating it under very high pressure with steam and releasing the pressure extremely quickly. The closest non-industrial analog is a Chinese popcorn cannon… but it’s much more controlled. It incorporates much more air into the final product without imparting any flavor from the heat source.
- hshdhdhehd 1y agoSo processedness is a proxy for healthiness. But raw sugar and guacamole would both count as processed.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> raw sugar and guacamole would both count as processed No. Processed culinary ingredient (Group 2) and minimally processed (Group 1). (Obviously, both can be turned into a UPF through fuckery.)
- gusgus01 1y agoGuacamole would count as Group 3 I believe. You use Group 1 and Group 2 ingredients to create it unless you're just grinding up avocados, in which case that's not a guacamole. If you really want to get interesting, you could even say homemade guacamole uses citric acid (from limes) to extend shelf life and enhance the flavor, which is on top of the sodium chloride (salt) that you use to do the same.
- IAmBroom 1y agoTIL the No True Scotsman fallacy can be used by guac snobs! :)
- gusgus01 1y agoI mean... different dishes have different names. Mashed avocados would probably just be called mashed avocados. Guacamole has many many regional versions, but I do think salt would be considered an essential ingredient in most of them. Salt would be a Group 2 ingredient. Nova calls out adding salt or sugar to Group 1 makes it Group 3, and specifically calls out Group 1 does not contain added salt. "Minimally processed foods, that together with unprocessed foods make up NOVA group 1, are unprocessed foods altered by industrial processes such as removal of inedible or unwanted parts, drying, crushing, grinding, fractioning, roasting, boiling, pasteurization, refrigeration, freezing, placing in containers, vacuum packaging or non-alcoholic fermentation. None of these processes add salt, sugar, oils or fats, or other food substances to the original food." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10260459/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10260459/
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> basic ingredient is something that does not have an ingredient list on its packaging These are unprocessed foods [1]. From them you get processed culinary ingredients, like olive oil, vinegar, honey and butter. As long as you’re minimally vigilant with these, you should be fine, though some production methods may still add preservatives or use solvents in their manufacture. After that one has processed foods, which may still have a good amount of Group 1 and 2 ingredients, before we get to Group 4, UPFs, what California is banning in school lunches. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification
- littlecranky67 1y agoThanks for that Link to the Nova classification. TIL there is even a database that lets you lookup the Nova level: openfoodfacts.org
- UncleMeat 1y agoThat's not true. The law does not define UPF as Nova Group 4 foods.
- lithocarpus 1y agoMuch "olive oil" out there is actually ultra processed. Not real extra virgin olive oil, but the cheaper more common olive oil including fake evoo can be either cut with soybean oil or is refined processed olive oil following the same process used in making refined soybean oil.
- jbstack 1y agoSounds like you're defining processed food, whereas this is about ultra processed food. For me, processed food might include something like unsweetened peanut butter where while the only ingredient is peanuts, it's still been through a process of grinding so that it's no longer in its natural form. At the other end of the spectrum an example of ultra processed food would be a factory packaged item with a long list of ingredients which includes ones you don't recognise e.g. chemical names or E numbers.
- gabrielsroka 1y agoThe peanuts might be roasted, too. Roasting is a process.
- lithocarpus 1y agoLook into the process involved in making soybean or canola or sunflower oil. One named ingredient that sounds natural but is itself ultra processed and not real food.
- woadwarrior01 1y agoBiscuits and crisps are generally considered to be ultra processed foods, despite containing only basic ingredients.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Biscuits and crisps are generally considered to be ultra processed foods, despite containing only basic ingredients Depends on if they’re ultra processed or not. If they won’t stale for weeks, they’re ultra processed with preservatives and/or solvents. If they go stale and have a simple ingredients list, they probably aren’t. (And kids don’t need to be habituated to having either with every lunch.)
- fingerlocks 1y agoSalt is a preservative, vinegar is a solvent. Individually or combined they can prevent spoilage indefinitely. So no, it’s a lot more arbitrary than that.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Salt is a preservative, vinegar is a solvent. Sure. But they’re commonly in kitchens and simply produced, making their status as Group 1 and 2 Nova foods unambiguous.
- otikik 1y agoWell that is because there's two very different things, both called "cookies". When a grandma bakes some cookies for their grandchildren she uses only some basic ingredients - eggs, flour, butter, sugar. For the product that food industries calls as cookies however, the list of ingredients looks like a git SHA.
- gusgus01 1y agoMan, you're missing a bunch of ingredients to actually make tasty cookies. Definitely need some salt. She's probably also using vanilla extract or purchased chocolate chips (or chunks) or cinnamon. Plus the leavening agent, so baking powder (or baking soda and another acid). That's all just for the basic cookies, there's so many options out there using stuff like malted chocolate powder, and that's ignoring making palatable gluten-free cookies.
- b00ty4breakfast 1y agothat would preclude basic ingredients like salt with anti-caking agents or spice blends. Seems kinda silly and arbitrary.