4 ms·

What like "prosperity for ourselves and our children"? I think the issues arise when it gets a smidge more nuanced then that.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> the issues arise when it gets a smidge more nuanced then that The issues arise when folks get distracted from common prosperity. I meet so many people in the Rockies and New York who are up in arms about some imaginary problem, or a problem they have no influence over and which cannot affect them, one they solely know about due to social media.
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  What's that problem? Do we achieve common prosperity through regulation or deregulation? Welfare state or trickle down? Fiscal responsibility or speculation? Strong dollar or weak dollar? Free market or protectionism? The parties (one in particular) can't even keep a consistent policy from year to year, I am not sure how we can hold hands and find the unified path to common prosperity.
  - anon291 1y ago
    While all these things matter, I'm not sure what level of business regulation v deregulation causes you to turn to violent rhetoric.
    - cosmicgadget 1y ago
      I thought the topic was "if we talked in person we would realize we have a common objective so things would be fine". Violence is definitely a kind of disagreement but my point was that irl discussions don't solve polarization, i.e. "regulation/deregulation cannot lead us to prosperity". Also plenty of politicians have said regulation is literal communism and literal communism makes a lot of people mad.
palmfacehn 1y ago
Specifically, it feels like the lack of discernment goes off the rails and falls into the chasm of derangement where people assume that their opponents do not have that common goal. Anti-natalists and population control advocates excluded, most of us do share that goal. The differences are in the proposed approaches. There are legitimate discussions which can be had about those approaches to achieving that common goal. The discussion is no longer in good faith where partisans deny that common goal or assume evil intent.
- weregiraffe 1y ago
  What about the millions of, for example, Muslims, who have a very particular idea of what "prosperity" means? Especially for your female children.
  - woooooo 1y ago
    Do fundamentalist Muslims have a realistic chance of imposing those views on your nation? Because, if not, you Fell For It Again. (Aside, every western Muslim I've personally met has been chill)
    - zpeti 1y ago
      Realistic is a very broad term, but do you think they don’t have an effect? And where you are from matters a lot, you will probably answer very differently if you are from California or if you are from Birmingham UK.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - febusravenga 1y ago
      In western Germany, France, UK? Traditionally catholic countries, core of European enlightenment culture. Yes there is small, but realistic chance. That's why right shovinism is rising in eu
  - 1y ago
anon291 1y ago
Yeah but when you discuss nuances in person rather than online your natural social chemistry in your brain kicks in and we all behave like actual people instead of mindless savages
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  With the downside that it's harder to reference (and look up) sources, and have wide participation or an easily-accessible record. And ultimately you're not going to convince many people to stop voting based on that one book.
anon7000 1y ago
There are a large number of policy issues the average American should be able to agree on, but have been polarized to the point that we don’t solve them. - Get money out of politics. Everyone complains about corruption, no one tries to do a constitutional amendment to get rid of Citizens United. - Strong privacy protections for your online data. Does anyone like the fact that your data gets sold and then used against you by car insurance companies? - Break up big companies that are taking their power too far. Seriously, take your Syscos, Nestles, AB InBevs of the world and break them up. No company deserves to have that much power over consumer markets, and the centralization of that power definitely makes prices higher. My conservative parents definitely don’t like how when Walmart and Rite Aid came to small-town midewest, all the local drug & grocery stores went out of business. - Every American knows our private health insurance system sucks. I mean every person you meet either doesn’t have good coverage, hasn’t used it much, or has had had a terrible experience with it. - We need to do away with police overstep like asset forfeiture, where the government can basically just rob you. I’m not talking defund the police, but you could sit the average American down, and probably come to agree that the police state has too much power and not enough accountability in a couple areas. There are so many stories along these lines which could get republicans and democrats on a similar page, and it comes down to the frustrations we ALL have with the systems we live in. It doesn’t matter who you voted for, when health insurance starts scamming you out of a procedure you need, it’s frustrating on a deeply personal level. And we all feel like we don’t have much control over federal policy — partly because businesses & moneyed interests can protect their interests while everyone else struggles, no matter who’s in charge. (And btw, this isn’t a elected officials on both sides are the same comment, more of a “we Americans have a lot of shared frustrations regardless of party”
- mock-possum 1y ago
  - same sex marriage should be treated equally to heterosexual marriage - the tradition of gender being strictly tied to genitalia at birth should be abolished, with individuals able to change gender (and genitals) at their whim Oops Americans don’t agree on queer rights and equality oops - everyone should be treated equally and afford equal protection under the law, regardless of where they were born or what the colour of the skin is or what their genitals look like Oops oops

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> the issues arise when it gets a smidge more nuanced then that The issues arise when folks get distracted from common prosperity. I meet so many people in the Rockies and New York who are up in arms about some imaginary problem, or a problem they have no influence over and which cannot affect them, one they solely know about due to social media.

cosmicgadget 1y ago
What's that problem? Do we achieve common prosperity through regulation or deregulation? Welfare state or trickle down? Fiscal responsibility or speculation? Strong dollar or weak dollar? Free market or protectionism? The parties (one in particular) can't even keep a consistent policy from year to year, I am not sure how we can hold hands and find the unified path to common prosperity.
- anon291 1y ago
  While all these things matter, I'm not sure what level of business regulation v deregulation causes you to turn to violent rhetoric.
  - cosmicgadget 1y ago
    I thought the topic was "if we talked in person we would realize we have a common objective so things would be fine". Violence is definitely a kind of disagreement but my point was that irl discussions don't solve polarization, i.e. "regulation/deregulation cannot lead us to prosperity". Also plenty of politicians have said regulation is literal communism and literal communism makes a lot of people mad.

palmfacehn 1y ago

Specifically, it feels like the lack of discernment goes off the rails and falls into the chasm of derangement where people assume that their opponents do not have that common goal. Anti-natalists and population control advocates excluded, most of us do share that goal. The differences are in the proposed approaches. There are legitimate discussions which can be had about those approaches to achieving that common goal. The discussion is no longer in good faith where partisans deny that common goal or assume evil intent.

weregiraffe 1y ago
What about the millions of, for example, Muslims, who have a very particular idea of what "prosperity" means? Especially for your female children.
- woooooo 1y ago
  Do fundamentalist Muslims have a realistic chance of imposing those views on your nation? Because, if not, you Fell For It Again. (Aside, every western Muslim I've personally met has been chill)
  - zpeti 1y ago
    Realistic is a very broad term, but do you think they don’t have an effect? And where you are from matters a lot, you will probably answer very differently if you are from California or if you are from Birmingham UK.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - febusravenga 1y ago
    In western Germany, France, UK? Traditionally catholic countries, core of European enlightenment culture. Yes there is small, but realistic chance. That's why right shovinism is rising in eu
- 1y ago

anon291 1y ago

Yeah but when you discuss nuances in person rather than online your natural social chemistry in your brain kicks in and we all behave like actual people instead of mindless savages

cosmicgadget 1y ago
With the downside that it's harder to reference (and look up) sources, and have wide participation or an easily-accessible record. And ultimately you're not going to convince many people to stop voting based on that one book.

anon7000 1y ago

There are a large number of policy issues the average American should be able to agree on, but have been polarized to the point that we don’t solve them. - Get money out of politics. Everyone complains about corruption, no one tries to do a constitutional amendment to get rid of Citizens United. - Strong privacy protections for your online data. Does anyone like the fact that your data gets sold and then used against you by car insurance companies? - Break up big companies that are taking their power too far. Seriously, take your Syscos, Nestles, AB InBevs of the world and break them up. No company deserves to have that much power over consumer markets, and the centralization of that power definitely makes prices higher. My conservative parents definitely don’t like how when Walmart and Rite Aid came to small-town midewest, all the local drug & grocery stores went out of business. - Every American knows our private health insurance system sucks. I mean every person you meet either doesn’t have good coverage, hasn’t used it much, or has had had a terrible experience with it. - We need to do away with police overstep like asset forfeiture, where the government can basically just rob you. I’m not talking defund the police, but you could sit the average American down, and probably come to agree that the police state has too much power and not enough accountability in a couple areas. There are so many stories along these lines which could get republicans and democrats on a similar page, and it comes down to the frustrations we ALL have with the systems we live in. It doesn’t matter who you voted for, when health insurance starts scamming you out of a procedure you need, it’s frustrating on a deeply personal level. And we all feel like we don’t have much control over federal policy — partly because businesses & moneyed interests can protect their interests while everyone else struggles, no matter who’s in charge. (And btw, this isn’t a elected officials on both sides are the same comment, more of a “we Americans have a lot of shared frustrations regardless of party”

mock-possum 1y ago
- same sex marriage should be treated equally to heterosexual marriage - the tradition of gender being strictly tied to genitalia at birth should be abolished, with individuals able to change gender (and genitals) at their whim Oops Americans don’t agree on queer rights and equality oops - everyone should be treated equally and afford equal protection under the law, regardless of where they were born or what the colour of the skin is or what their genitals look like Oops oops