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Reddit moderation is also completely broken. Mods can ban anyone for any reason and do ban people for very stupid reasons with absolutely no recourse. It is so

Reddit moderation is also completely broken. Mods can ban anyone for any reason and do ban people for very stupid reasons with absolutely no recourse. It is so bad I have completely stopped posting on Reddit.

ceejayoz 1y ago
Most online communities work that way. It’s highly unusual to have some sort of judicial process.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  Most older forums had an element of self-selection... people don't hang out where they're not wanted. But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) so you're either there or nowhere. This forces to some extent people who would gravitate away from each other, and personalities go overboard. There's more need of a judicial process there, than there would be elsewhere. And that was before everything became politically polarized. Now that you could be perfectly happy talking to someone about X, you still end up hating their guts because they love/hate Trump/Obama and it slips out (over a long enough timespan). People do not scale.
  - jrowen 1y ago
    But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) What are some examples? In my experience there are numerous other communities of various types for any given interest. Reddit is just kind of a convenient surface level a lot of the time.
  - LexiMax 1y ago
    > But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) so you're either there or nowhere. Reddit wasn't even that good as a community space in the first place. It was a content aggregator with user-moderated comment sections, and those make for pretty awful communities because on anything remotely controversial you get factions dog piling each other trying to hide each other's posts. That said, communities are all on discord now, and quite honestly I think it's for the better. It gives moderators a lot more discretion, but balances the scales by making it very easy to create new servers where one can invite like-minded people and grow organically.
  - throwawaymb 1y ago
    Reddit always was a flawed place
- lurk2 1y ago
  > It’s highly unusual to have some sort of judicial process. Every forum I ever used prior to Reddit had a ban appeal process, as did most game servers. For a few games reading the ban appeals could be more fun than playing the actual game. This was usually moderators making executive decisions based on a user-submitted form, but it was better than nothing.
  - rjbwork 1y ago
    Reddit also has a ban appeals process. But it's the same people you're appealing to - the mods. Speaking for myself I generally will unban if people are nice and express understanding for why they were banned.
    - benjiro 1y ago
      Really depends on who the mods are. I got two bans on reddit: First one: In a programming sub, as there was over 10 years a rather known bug. Typical discussion goes off and using the bug as a example of issues that never get fixed in the language. Short term sub banned for breaking the rules. The stated "broken rule" was one of those very broad one's where you can hit any discussion with. Appeal the ban, stating that my comments are based on facts. Pointed to the github, the 10 year long discussion. No answer beyond "you are perma banned for breaking the rules". Got private contacted by one of the main developers of the language, as he noticed my banned status and was unable to get a answer from me. We gone over the bug in PMs. Bug got assigned to somebody and fixed. Thanks for fixing that 10 year old bug. That was my first experience with mod overreach. But that did not undo the ban for "being right". Second one: In a specific country sub, i noticed there was factual proven misinformation. Corrected the user in a lengthy post, with multiple links to news articles. Short term ban by a mod, for "misinformation". Appealed the ban, got into a whole discussion with the sub mod. Told him that he is using his own opinion, not the facts. Stated multiple times my news sources from my post (not entertainment news but professional news), inc reuters. Stated that he is not following the rules by using his person opinion as basis for the temp ban and asked for escalation of the ban review. Asked to show what rule i broke (never got a answer beyond his personal opinions). Other mod came in, stated that i "attacked the mod" by asking for a escalating of the review, and by accusing the mod of not being neutral (i mean, using personal opinion vs official news websites = your not neutral). Perma ban ... Kafka lol. As you can guess, never got a answer to what "misinformation" that i broke. /Insert slap head emoji ... What did the mods gain? Maybe that short dopamine hit for "winning" by banning somebody. Sounds more like losing if you need to ban based upon your opinion, and not the facts, but hey... O, made new account, and back on sub. Never got banned again. Did i change my posting behavior. Nowp ... If i see misinformation, i come with receipts (links to actual reputable news articles). Its like, what do you gain? Its just power tripping people that love to mod. There are good mods out there but a TON of them are just nasty dopamine junkies, that want to "win arguments" with bans.
AndrewStephens 1y ago
I have some bad news for you about news.ycombinator.com or any other web forum. Unless you actually own the web site you can be prevented from posting on a whim. Of course, most reputable forums have policies and rules but at the end of the day these do not mean much. Who are you going to complain to if you get unjustly banned - the Internet police? You can always start your own blog/forum/subreddit and post whatever you like.
riffic 1y ago
that's a feature not a bug.
analog8374 1y ago
Is it any different here? Is this not the standard setup for all forums and considered perfectly right and normal?
- typewithrhythm 1y ago
  It's the anonymity and odd changes in who is moderating that makes it feel different. Standard setup to me would be consistently opinionated person, or team with some central directive (and hopefully oversight).
- jaggederest 1y ago
  Dang and the other moderators here are incredibly scrupulous. If you browse with show dead on, and find an account that is posting regularly but banned, and go back through their history, you'll almost always find multiple warnings and a public statement about their banning. HN has problems but moderation being arbitrary isn't really one of them.
  - masklinn 1y ago
    What you mention has nothing to do with their capabilities.
    - frm88 1y ago
      Yes, it does. Partly at least. It documents what rules/guidelines were violated, when and how often. In terms of transparency that's miles above reddit. I have also seen dang and Tomhow (?) repeatedly call out users for violating the guidelines - they do it openly and react to discussions. Again, miles above reddit. They edit headlines when the original titles are misleading and comment openly on it. Transparency. I haven't been here for long but the traceability of moderation on this site is laudable, so is their restraint when it comes to commenting on topics/users - and I should know: I have moderated a software forum for over 10 years and had my fair share of temptations.
- UltraSane 1y ago
  I was banned from /r/comics for saying a comic wasn't funny. Hacker news doesn't ban anyone for such stupid reasons.
Braxton1980 1y ago
>Mods can ban anyone for any reason Yes, they can and that's how it's set up. Each community makes their own rules and can choose who participates. It's not Reddit. It's the sub that made the decision and I'm not sure how it would be possible for Reddit the company to deal with sub level rule complaints and appeals.
- elephanlemon 1y ago
  I think it would be better if Reddit took more ownership. In other words, instead of hosting a platform where anyone can claim a subreddit as their little domain, and then it’s theirs forever, Reddit could say that the subreddits belong to the people that use them. For example, perhaps they could institute some sort of system where members of a subreddit could vote out moderators who abuse their power.
  - JoshTriplett 1y ago
    > For example, perhaps they could institute some sort of system where members of a subreddit could vote out moderators who abuse their power. Leaving aside everything else wrong with that, that would be trivial to abuse, especially with the help of sockpuppetry but easily enough even without that.
- SilverElfin 1y ago
  I think the reason it feels offensive is that subreddits of common names feel like they should be more democratically managed or held to a high standard. Instead it’s a bunch of fiefdoms and if you create an alternate subreddit with a poor name it just won’t get readers. Codebootcamp2 or whatever is doomed from the start because of the importance of names.
- lenkite 1y ago
  Sure, but there are really NO RULES. And frankly they can do whatever they want as long as they use only a UUID for the forum name. If one is squatting on a valuable forum name, then the moderators should be themselves subject to a standard enforced by Reddit.
- 1y ago
qingcharles 1y ago
Reddit itself bans and shadowbans for no good reason on a very regular basis. And their appeal system generally does not work. And Reddit bans are used by powermods to get rid of any rivals. They will pay to bot the report system so your account is instantly perma-banned by Reddit. And Reddit has the most aggressive system of all the social networks for detecting duplicate accounts, so you'll have a hard time ever using the site again.

ceejayoz 1y ago

Most online communities work that way. It’s highly unusual to have some sort of judicial process.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
Most older forums had an element of self-selection... people don't hang out where they're not wanted. But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) so you're either there or nowhere. This forces to some extent people who would gravitate away from each other, and personalities go overboard. There's more need of a judicial process there, than there would be elsewhere. And that was before everything became politically polarized. Now that you could be perfectly happy talking to someone about X, you still end up hating their guts because they love/hate Trump/Obama and it slips out (over a long enough timespan). People do not scale.
- jrowen 1y ago
  But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) What are some examples? In my experience there are numerous other communities of various types for any given interest. Reddit is just kind of a convenient surface level a lot of the time.
- LexiMax 1y ago
  > But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) so you're either there or nowhere. Reddit wasn't even that good as a community space in the first place. It was a content aggregator with user-moderated comment sections, and those make for pretty awful communities because on anything remotely controversial you get factions dog piling each other trying to hide each other's posts. That said, communities are all on discord now, and quite honestly I think it's for the better. It gives moderators a lot more discretion, but balances the scales by making it very easy to create new servers where one can invite like-minded people and grow organically.
- throwawaymb 1y ago
  Reddit always was a flawed place
lurk2 1y ago
> It’s highly unusual to have some sort of judicial process. Every forum I ever used prior to Reddit had a ban appeal process, as did most game servers. For a few games reading the ban appeals could be more fun than playing the actual game. This was usually moderators making executive decisions based on a user-submitted form, but it was better than nothing.
- rjbwork 1y ago
  Reddit also has a ban appeals process. But it's the same people you're appealing to - the mods. Speaking for myself I generally will unban if people are nice and express understanding for why they were banned.
  - benjiro 1y ago
    Really depends on who the mods are. I got two bans on reddit: First one: In a programming sub, as there was over 10 years a rather known bug. Typical discussion goes off and using the bug as a example of issues that never get fixed in the language. Short term sub banned for breaking the rules. The stated "broken rule" was one of those very broad one's where you can hit any discussion with. Appeal the ban, stating that my comments are based on facts. Pointed to the github, the 10 year long discussion. No answer beyond "you are perma banned for breaking the rules". Got private contacted by one of the main developers of the language, as he noticed my banned status and was unable to get a answer from me. We gone over the bug in PMs. Bug got assigned to somebody and fixed. Thanks for fixing that 10 year old bug. That was my first experience with mod overreach. But that did not undo the ban for "being right". Second one: In a specific country sub, i noticed there was factual proven misinformation. Corrected the user in a lengthy post, with multiple links to news articles. Short term ban by a mod, for "misinformation". Appealed the ban, got into a whole discussion with the sub mod. Told him that he is using his own opinion, not the facts. Stated multiple times my news sources from my post (not entertainment news but professional news), inc reuters. Stated that he is not following the rules by using his person opinion as basis for the temp ban and asked for escalation of the ban review. Asked to show what rule i broke (never got a answer beyond his personal opinions). Other mod came in, stated that i "attacked the mod" by asking for a escalating of the review, and by accusing the mod of not being neutral (i mean, using personal opinion vs official news websites = your not neutral). Perma ban ... Kafka lol. As you can guess, never got a answer to what "misinformation" that i broke. /Insert slap head emoji ... What did the mods gain? Maybe that short dopamine hit for "winning" by banning somebody. Sounds more like losing if you need to ban based upon your opinion, and not the facts, but hey... O, made new account, and back on sub. Never got banned again. Did i change my posting behavior. Nowp ... If i see misinformation, i come with receipts (links to actual reputable news articles). Its like, what do you gain? Its just power tripping people that love to mod. There are good mods out there but a TON of them are just nasty dopamine junkies, that want to "win arguments" with bans.

AndrewStephens 1y ago

I have some bad news for you about news.ycombinator.com or any other web forum. Unless you actually own the web site you can be prevented from posting on a whim. Of course, most reputable forums have policies and rules but at the end of the day these do not mean much. Who are you going to complain to if you get unjustly banned - the Internet police? You can always start your own blog/forum/subreddit and post whatever you like.

riffic 1y ago

that's a feature not a bug.

analog8374 1y ago

Is it any different here? Is this not the standard setup for all forums and considered perfectly right and normal?

typewithrhythm 1y ago
It's the anonymity and odd changes in who is moderating that makes it feel different. Standard setup to me would be consistently opinionated person, or team with some central directive (and hopefully oversight).
jaggederest 1y ago
Dang and the other moderators here are incredibly scrupulous. If you browse with show dead on, and find an account that is posting regularly but banned, and go back through their history, you'll almost always find multiple warnings and a public statement about their banning. HN has problems but moderation being arbitrary isn't really one of them.
- masklinn 1y ago
  What you mention has nothing to do with their capabilities.
  - frm88 1y ago
    Yes, it does. Partly at least. It documents what rules/guidelines were violated, when and how often. In terms of transparency that's miles above reddit. I have also seen dang and Tomhow (?) repeatedly call out users for violating the guidelines - they do it openly and react to discussions. Again, miles above reddit. They edit headlines when the original titles are misleading and comment openly on it. Transparency. I haven't been here for long but the traceability of moderation on this site is laudable, so is their restraint when it comes to commenting on topics/users - and I should know: I have moderated a software forum for over 10 years and had my fair share of temptations.
UltraSane 1y ago
I was banned from /r/comics for saying a comic wasn't funny. Hacker news doesn't ban anyone for such stupid reasons.

Braxton1980 1y ago

>Mods can ban anyone for any reason Yes, they can and that's how it's set up. Each community makes their own rules and can choose who participates. It's not Reddit. It's the sub that made the decision and I'm not sure how it would be possible for Reddit the company to deal with sub level rule complaints and appeals.

elephanlemon 1y ago
I think it would be better if Reddit took more ownership. In other words, instead of hosting a platform where anyone can claim a subreddit as their little domain, and then it’s theirs forever, Reddit could say that the subreddits belong to the people that use them. For example, perhaps they could institute some sort of system where members of a subreddit could vote out moderators who abuse their power.
- JoshTriplett 1y ago
  > For example, perhaps they could institute some sort of system where members of a subreddit could vote out moderators who abuse their power. Leaving aside everything else wrong with that, that would be trivial to abuse, especially with the help of sockpuppetry but easily enough even without that.
SilverElfin 1y ago
I think the reason it feels offensive is that subreddits of common names feel like they should be more democratically managed or held to a high standard. Instead it’s a bunch of fiefdoms and if you create an alternate subreddit with a poor name it just won’t get readers. Codebootcamp2 or whatever is doomed from the start because of the importance of names.
lenkite 1y ago
Sure, but there are really NO RULES. And frankly they can do whatever they want as long as they use only a UUID for the forum name. If one is squatting on a valuable forum name, then the moderators should be themselves subject to a standard enforced by Reddit.
1y ago

qingcharles 1y ago

Reddit itself bans and shadowbans for no good reason on a very regular basis. And their appeal system generally does not work. And Reddit bans are used by powermods to get rid of any rivals. They will pay to bot the report system so your account is instantly perma-banned by Reddit. And Reddit has the most aggressive system of all the social networks for detecting duplicate accounts, so you'll have a hard time ever using the site again.