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I feel like this could be adopted for your homegrown "whatever" framework (eg: UI framework, Auth framework, …) Congratulations on getting hired to this team!

by psadri 1y ago

I feel like this could be adopted for your homegrown "whatever" framework (eg: UI framework, Auth framework, …) Congratulations on getting hired to this team! You probably count yourself lucky, but don't. We had been trying to fill this role for the past 5 months and every candidate would run away as soon as we showed them our homegrown auth framework. But don't run yet please, do give it a try. So, you are still here? It must be a bad job market out there. Looks like you found the documentation for the project. Let me save you the trouble, it has not be updated since 3 years ago (about the time John quit). No worries, there are lots of usage examples in the Perforce repo. Perforce is like Git but that's for another day. So you managed to checkout the code. Before you type "make", let me remind you to install this particular version of Python and set up your LD paths. Make sure you don't have anything else relying on Python because they will probably never work again. If you hit the dreaded "std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char> > >'} is not derived from 'const char*'" error, ask Joe (if he is still around) to show you which header file you need to tweak. That's not checked in because it breaks the build on a legacy server we still have running for one of the customers. … someone else please take over… :-)

hinkley 1y ago
This would be perfect if you replaced “Joe” as the bottom with John to illustrate that this document has been edited five times and not brought back to consistency. And also that only one articulate person ever understood it and he got scared off. > 3 years ago (about the time John quit) > ask John (if he is still around)
- psadri 1y ago
  That’s funny. Yeah. I wrote this on the fly. It can use multiple passes to add layers of self reference / depth.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    Some people think I’m just the right amount of cynical. Some people… do not agree.
BLKNSLVR 1y ago
Stop it! ... you'll need to refer to these pages on Confluence, but they haven't all yet migrated to the new Confluence documentation structure, which is here, so you'll need to search both. And then the really detailed documentation is in Sharepoint here, but when we update these documents we'll also need to convert them to PDF and publish them to our Customer-accessible ticketing system using this specific ticket number, which you'll need to remember because search on that system doesn't work very well.
- dreamcompiler 1y ago
  ...and keep in mind that our self-hosted Confluence instance is several years old and since someone finds a new Confluence vulnerability every three days the data you need may vector some malware to your machine so you probably should only look at the docs on a sandboxed VM. Atlassian has been bugging us to convert to cloud hosting for 5 years and management won't let us but that's another story.
- axus 1y ago
  Also the Customer-accessible ticketing system is Microsoft Dynamics 365
dreamcompiler 1y ago
> Make sure you don't have anything else relying on Python because they will probably never work again. This is why when I see some clever open source tool discussed on HN and I go to the repo and see it's written in Python I close the browser window and pretend I never saw it. Yes I know there are ways to protect yourself when using Python in much the same way that lead-lined glove boxes protect you when working with plutonium, but I can never remember the proper CLI incantation to make the lead-lined glove box appear.
- wtallis 1y ago
  These days, if I'm feeling generous I'll spend a minute or two to see if I can get a promising Python tool to install with uv. If it's not going to easily submit to a `uv tool install`, then I move on and forget about it.
- ecshafer 1y ago
  UV has gone a long way to fix that issue with python.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    uv has not really done that much. It's all been possible, and usually about as ergonomically. It's just opinionated in a way that people currently seem to like, and fast primarily due to good internal design (not because it's written in rocket emoji Rust sparkle emoji, although that certainly is a net positive to performance).
    - lmm 1y ago
      UV hasn't done anything except for all the parts that matter. (And while there are compelling arguments that Rust has nothing to do with it, the correlation is pretty strong)
      - noitpmeder 1y ago
        UV has provided easy solutions for engineers that are easily frustrated by a lack of easy solutions. There's nothing wrong with easy solutions, but any python engineer worth their salt has long since solved and moved on from the issues that UV claims to solve. I believe UV provides value, even significant value, to lite python users, but for those working with python day in and day out, maybe you're using a new tool, but life has not changed significantly for the better. Or you just sucked and didn't reach for any of the perfectly usable solutions to all of these problems that existed before UV showed up.
heresie-dabord 1y ago
> I feel like this could be adopted for your <organisation's management shenanigans> Welcome to $org. Up to this point in the hiring process, you may have believed that we are a principled, well-structured meritocracy where all talent and hard work are appropriately awarded. Well I find it necessary to inform you...
McGlockenshire 1y ago
There was a time when a previous employer looked like we were going to go down in flames -- 2008. I wrote such a love letter in the main include file (yay PHP) that told them how to figure out how the application worked and gave a credit blurb to all the previous devs and how they helped build the application. We didn't go under quite yet and it was my extreme pleasure to allow two more devs to write their own blurbs and edit the letter to help future others. The company later went under and was acquired by a competitor, so I'm sure they've seen the letter in order to figure out how to extract data from the system. Effort not wasted.
ainiriand 1y ago
... If you want to have a reliable copy of the database do not rely on the one that sits in the repo, ask Steven for one of the latest backups that he made and that should be in his own cloud drive. Then you can proceed safely to run the migrations, just remember to skip the one labelled as 20259999-9 as this was made for a prod hotfix and is still necessary. Edit your migrations table to skip it. The migrations table will be created when you run 'status'.
aitchnyu 1y ago
StackOverflow jobs no longer has Joel's checklist, one was a single script to bring up a dev environment in your system.

by psadri 1y ago

hinkley 1y ago

This would be perfect if you replaced “Joe” as the bottom with John to illustrate that this document has been edited five times and not brought back to consistency. And also that only one articulate person ever understood it and he got scared off. > 3 years ago (about the time John quit) > ask John (if he is still around)

psadri 1y ago
That’s funny. Yeah. I wrote this on the fly. It can use multiple passes to add layers of self reference / depth.
- hinkley 1y ago
  Some people think I’m just the right amount of cynical. Some people… do not agree.

BLKNSLVR 1y ago

Stop it! ... you'll need to refer to these pages on Confluence, but they haven't all yet migrated to the new Confluence documentation structure, which is here, so you'll need to search both. And then the really detailed documentation is in Sharepoint here, but when we update these documents we'll also need to convert them to PDF and publish them to our Customer-accessible ticketing system using this specific ticket number, which you'll need to remember because search on that system doesn't work very well.

dreamcompiler 1y ago
...and keep in mind that our self-hosted Confluence instance is several years old and since someone finds a new Confluence vulnerability every three days the data you need may vector some malware to your machine so you probably should only look at the docs on a sandboxed VM. Atlassian has been bugging us to convert to cloud hosting for 5 years and management won't let us but that's another story.
axus 1y ago
Also the Customer-accessible ticketing system is Microsoft Dynamics 365

dreamcompiler 1y ago

> Make sure you don't have anything else relying on Python because they will probably never work again. This is why when I see some clever open source tool discussed on HN and I go to the repo and see it's written in Python I close the browser window and pretend I never saw it. Yes I know there are ways to protect yourself when using Python in much the same way that lead-lined glove boxes protect you when working with plutonium, but I can never remember the proper CLI incantation to make the lead-lined glove box appear.

wtallis 1y ago
These days, if I'm feeling generous I'll spend a minute or two to see if I can get a promising Python tool to install with uv. If it's not going to easily submit to a `uv tool install`, then I move on and forget about it.
ecshafer 1y ago
UV has gone a long way to fix that issue with python.
- zahlman 1y ago
  uv has not really done that much. It's all been possible, and usually about as ergonomically. It's just opinionated in a way that people currently seem to like, and fast primarily due to good internal design (not because it's written in rocket emoji Rust sparkle emoji, although that certainly is a net positive to performance).
  - lmm 1y ago
    UV hasn't done anything except for all the parts that matter. (And while there are compelling arguments that Rust has nothing to do with it, the correlation is pretty strong)
    - noitpmeder 1y ago
      UV has provided easy solutions for engineers that are easily frustrated by a lack of easy solutions. There's nothing wrong with easy solutions, but any python engineer worth their salt has long since solved and moved on from the issues that UV claims to solve. I believe UV provides value, even significant value, to lite python users, but for those working with python day in and day out, maybe you're using a new tool, but life has not changed significantly for the better. Or you just sucked and didn't reach for any of the perfectly usable solutions to all of these problems that existed before UV showed up.

heresie-dabord 1y ago

> I feel like this could be adopted for your <organisation's management shenanigans> Welcome to $org. Up to this point in the hiring process, you may have believed that we are a principled, well-structured meritocracy where all talent and hard work are appropriately awarded. Well I find it necessary to inform you...

McGlockenshire 1y ago

There was a time when a previous employer looked like we were going to go down in flames -- 2008. I wrote such a love letter in the main include file (yay PHP) that told them how to figure out how the application worked and gave a credit blurb to all the previous devs and how they helped build the application. We didn't go under quite yet and it was my extreme pleasure to allow two more devs to write their own blurbs and edit the letter to help future others. The company later went under and was acquired by a competitor, so I'm sure they've seen the letter in order to figure out how to extract data from the system. Effort not wasted.

ainiriand 1y ago

... If you want to have a reliable copy of the database do not rely on the one that sits in the repo, ask Steven for one of the latest backups that he made and that should be in his own cloud drive. Then you can proceed safely to run the migrations, just remember to skip the one labelled as 20259999-9 as this was made for a prod hotfix and is still necessary. Edit your migrations table to skip it. The migrations table will be created when you run 'status'.

aitchnyu 1y ago

StackOverflow jobs no longer has Joel's checklist, one was a single script to bring up a dev environment in your system.