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I welcome these changes. They might seem draconian at first, but I think it could do wonders to protect project supporters. It could also serve to protect neo

I welcome these changes. They might seem draconian at first, but I think it could do wonders to protect project supporters. It could also serve to protect neophyte project originators who have no clue as to what it takes to get a hardware project from a rendering or a garage prototype to a real finished product. There are a myriad of technologies available today to produce very high quality prototypes that look like the finished product. Forcing project originators to show an actual product rather than a rendering will simply force them to make the time and financial investment to get the project to a far deeper level of completion and really think it all thorough. If someone will not take the time and spend the money to put together a prototype that is a real representation of what it is they are proposing I don't think they belong on Kickstarter. I would imagine that it would still be OK to show renderings and animations so long as the actual physical product is shown as well. The reason I think this is important is that this can also show supporters important details that may not be evident or easy to demonstrate with actual products. For example, animations could show internal mechanism and how they work. 3D renderings could show ideas on variants or configurations for backers to discuss and provide feedback for. I have a couple of projects that have been slated for Kickstarter for months. I've been too busy with work to really get to them. In both cases my approach has been to fully develop the items to the point that they are basically ready to manufacture. The Kickstarter push would simply serve to gage interest and pay for tooling and other NRE's that would make it possible to fabricate the items in reasonable quantities at a decent cost. Of course, I've been in product design and manufacturing for a long, long time so I tend to be very realistic about what it takes to get something done. I've seen projects go on Kickstarter that would not have a chance in hell to be completed at the requested funding level. Not a good thing. Above all, what this indicates is that Kickstarter is watching and listening, which is excellent.

ajross 14y ago
Indeed. The implication here is that, generally, "Hardware and Product Design" projects always fail. But rather than ban them entirely, they are simply preventing anyone from "marketing" them. So you can still do a hardware project, you just have to sell it via the plan and specs only, without sexy adornment. That seems fair.
- robomartin 14y ago
  I wouldn't go as far as saying that they always fail. I think that there are a lot of people who don't quite understand the bridge that must be crossed from garage prototype to shippable product. In many ways, they don't know what they don't know. They don't do enough work ahead of time, set their goals too low, don't understand the real business equation behind their project and then find themselves in the proverbial "be careful what you wish for" situation. After all, getting a million dollars for a project that requires two million is not a good thing, is it?.
  - pc86 14y ago
    How would you suggest someone without any experience in physical products get that required knowledge? A friend and I have an idea for a physical product and we're in the process of building the garage prototype now. When that's finished and if we think it's a fit for Kickstarter, what resources should we find so we don't set goals too low, etc?
    - robomartin 14y ago
      Good question. A lot of it really depends on the nature of the product. Is it purely mechanical or does it have electronics? Plastics? Metal? Any optics? The set of disciplines to be mastered could be daunting. In such cases it is probably best to hire a product designer to help you get from a garage prototype to a manufacturable product or an interim product that is manufactured using an approach that is closest to production. If you could provide a little more info as to the nature of the product I can certainly take the time to give you some pointers. I don't need to know what it is. What I need is an understanding of the technologies that you might require and if there's anything really critical in the design. For example, if it has lenses it might be critical to have them precisely aligned. Does it produce a lot of heat? What kind of power will it require? Batteries or powered off the wall? The other important bit of data would be your current skill set (you and your friend). Tools: For nearly all electro-mechanical products you will need specific industry-standard tools in order to be able to communicate with manufacturers and job shops. For example, I use Solidworks for mechanical design as well as thermal and flow simulation and Altium Designer for schematic and circuit board design. If the design involves programmable electronics you might be into tools such as Xilinx or Altera for FPGA's and Keil or other compilers for embedded stuff. Lastly. Where are you? The approach might change a bit based on your geographic location and the locally available resources. You might, for example, be able to ping your local university for help.
larrys 14y ago
"I would imagine that it would still be OK to show renderings and animations so long as the actual physical product is shown as well." From the page, this does not appear to be the case. It's stated very clearly: "Product renderings are prohibited. Product images must be photos of the prototype as it currently exists." It should be interesting to see though how people creatively get around this prohibition.
- greendestiny 14y ago
  A diagram isn't a product render. It'll be interesting to see how vigorous the enforcement is for all the grey area in between.
  - kevinpet 14y ago
    I suspect that the real target is photo realistic renderings. I mean, one of the meanings of "rendering" is a drawing. I doubt they will have a problem with a patent-style sketch showing what the product is intended to be.
- robomartin 14y ago
  I'll find out soon enough. I think I might have the time to put up one hardware project on Kickstarter in about a month or so. The actual product will be shown in finished form. I'd like to use Solidworks animation to show some of the clever mechanical design that makes it work. Clearly there is no way to do this with the actual product as it would require aluminum to be transparent. There's also the case of some shots that are simply impossible to achieve any other way (animated cross sections). My guess is that the KS guys probably get this and are simply looking to host more legitimate, for lack of a better word, hardware projects. I can't see anyone who really knows how to execute on hardware projects have any issues with these restrictions. I'll certainly consult with the KS guys when ready and see what they say.
  - staunch 14y ago
    Transparent aluminum isn't that big of a deal. Scotty whipped up a recipe on an old Macintosh in like five minutes.
Roelven 14y ago
I agree. The recent episodes with the unlikely LIFX project has probably set fire to Kickstarters' observations. This is good.
gavanwoolery 14y ago
I agree, this is a good move on their part. I am working on a hardware project myself, and it has taken me a lot of effort to learn the ins and outs of manufacturing, machining, CAD, and so forth (I am just a software engineer). Ultimately, things almost are always more complex and expensive than you would initially anticipate.

ajross 14y ago

Indeed. The implication here is that, generally, "Hardware and Product Design" projects always fail. But rather than ban them entirely, they are simply preventing anyone from "marketing" them. So you can still do a hardware project, you just have to sell it via the plan and specs only, without sexy adornment. That seems fair.

robomartin 14y ago
I wouldn't go as far as saying that they always fail. I think that there are a lot of people who don't quite understand the bridge that must be crossed from garage prototype to shippable product. In many ways, they don't know what they don't know. They don't do enough work ahead of time, set their goals too low, don't understand the real business equation behind their project and then find themselves in the proverbial "be careful what you wish for" situation. After all, getting a million dollars for a project that requires two million is not a good thing, is it?.
- pc86 14y ago
  How would you suggest someone without any experience in physical products get that required knowledge? A friend and I have an idea for a physical product and we're in the process of building the garage prototype now. When that's finished and if we think it's a fit for Kickstarter, what resources should we find so we don't set goals too low, etc?
  - robomartin 14y ago
    Good question. A lot of it really depends on the nature of the product. Is it purely mechanical or does it have electronics? Plastics? Metal? Any optics? The set of disciplines to be mastered could be daunting. In such cases it is probably best to hire a product designer to help you get from a garage prototype to a manufacturable product or an interim product that is manufactured using an approach that is closest to production. If you could provide a little more info as to the nature of the product I can certainly take the time to give you some pointers. I don't need to know what it is. What I need is an understanding of the technologies that you might require and if there's anything really critical in the design. For example, if it has lenses it might be critical to have them precisely aligned. Does it produce a lot of heat? What kind of power will it require? Batteries or powered off the wall? The other important bit of data would be your current skill set (you and your friend). Tools: For nearly all electro-mechanical products you will need specific industry-standard tools in order to be able to communicate with manufacturers and job shops. For example, I use Solidworks for mechanical design as well as thermal and flow simulation and Altium Designer for schematic and circuit board design. If the design involves programmable electronics you might be into tools such as Xilinx or Altera for FPGA's and Keil or other compilers for embedded stuff. Lastly. Where are you? The approach might change a bit based on your geographic location and the locally available resources. You might, for example, be able to ping your local university for help.

larrys 14y ago

"I would imagine that it would still be OK to show renderings and animations so long as the actual physical product is shown as well." From the page, this does not appear to be the case. It's stated very clearly: "Product renderings are prohibited. Product images must be photos of the prototype as it currently exists." It should be interesting to see though how people creatively get around this prohibition.

greendestiny 14y ago
A diagram isn't a product render. It'll be interesting to see how vigorous the enforcement is for all the grey area in between.
- kevinpet 14y ago
  I suspect that the real target is photo realistic renderings. I mean, one of the meanings of "rendering" is a drawing. I doubt they will have a problem with a patent-style sketch showing what the product is intended to be.
robomartin 14y ago
I'll find out soon enough. I think I might have the time to put up one hardware project on Kickstarter in about a month or so. The actual product will be shown in finished form. I'd like to use Solidworks animation to show some of the clever mechanical design that makes it work. Clearly there is no way to do this with the actual product as it would require aluminum to be transparent. There's also the case of some shots that are simply impossible to achieve any other way (animated cross sections). My guess is that the KS guys probably get this and are simply looking to host more legitimate, for lack of a better word, hardware projects. I can't see anyone who really knows how to execute on hardware projects have any issues with these restrictions. I'll certainly consult with the KS guys when ready and see what they say.
- staunch 14y ago
  Transparent aluminum isn't that big of a deal. Scotty whipped up a recipe on an old Macintosh in like five minutes.

Roelven 14y ago

I agree. The recent episodes with the unlikely LIFX project has probably set fire to Kickstarters' observations. This is good.

gavanwoolery 14y ago

I agree, this is a good move on their part. I am working on a hardware project myself, and it has taken me a lot of effort to learn the ins and outs of manufacturing, machining, CAD, and so forth (I am just a software engineer). Ultimately, things almost are always more complex and expensive than you would initially anticipate.