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It can be interesting to look at all the servers these apps try to reach after being installed Unless one is using something like GrapheneOS, Android/iOS "app

It can be interesting to look at all the servers these apps try to reach after being installed Unless one is using something like GrapheneOS, Android/iOS "app permissions" do not meaningfully impede data collection As long as apps can connect to the internet, data can be collected. By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. That design is not a coincidence

grues-dinner 1y ago
> By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. It does seem like the number one permission you might wish to choose not to grant, doesn't it? In a privacy-first design there could also be an API for an encrypted channel that the user has access to, rather than allowing the device to send mysterious black-box data from your device on your behalf in the background whenever it wants. Though I suppose it would just turn into base64 "plaintext" payloads quickly and become normalised rather than a neon sign of fuckery afoot.
lreeves 1y ago
On iOS you can deny an app cellular data access which accomplishes this, as long as you don't launch it on Wifi. But yes I too wish I could deny apps internet access completely.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
  "... as long as you don't launch it on WiFi." Unfortunately, apps can still connect even when they are not "launched" There are ways to deny apps internet access completely. But this is not something that is provided by Apple or Google
realo 1y ago
It would be cool to have some form of filtering vpn to do just that and easy to deploy on a personal vm provider. Maybe I should ask Claude Code to kludge together something.
1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
To me, the differences between iOS and Android are insignificant. Both corporate OS suck, and there are other corporate OS that suck, too The fundamental similarity is that Apple does not protect the Apple computer owner^1 from Apple anymore than Google protects Android users from Google Like Google, Apple collects data and profits from ad services. The Apple hardware buyer becomes the product after purchase. Apple profits from selling access to the hardware owner to myriad third parties. It's always making deals Like the one with Google we learned about in the government's antitrust case. But I digress There was a meme something like, "Unless you're paying, you are the product". But it's also possible to pay and be the product. For example, when someone purchases an individual Windows license from Microsoft, after purchase the company is still going to _require_ them to create an "account", connect to the internet and be subjected to data collection Both iOS and Android have "app stores" (MS copies this, too), both expect and intend these "app stores" to earn them revenue from advertising, e.g., allowing apps to do surveillance, data collections and show ads 1. who is forced to use iOS. No "unlocked" bootloaders. No custom ROMs
- port11 1y ago
  This is a disingenuous take that punishes companies with better data collection practices. iOS has many toggles for disabling data collection, ad personalisation, limit apps from tracking you with more persistent techniques, and so on. I'd never defend Apple willy-nilly: they're a megacorp that defrauds the European consumer and is hostile to much I care about. But there is a world of difference between Android and iOS in terms of the protections afforded to the user. Of course most people just don't know where the toggles and settings are that protect them on iOS.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
  There are no "toggles" that protect iOS users from data collection and surveillance by Apple Today's Apple computers try to ping Apple servers the moment they are powered on for the first time. The devices incessantly try to "phone home". Apple's definition of "privacy" does not include privacy from Apple. That is not a coincidence There is no "toggle" to enable this "convenience", i.e., usage of Apple servers, because it is, by design, on by default This is not an opinion or a perspective (a "take"). It is a fact, verifiable with tcpdump or the like One can focus on differences or one can focus on similarities. Many online commentators choose the former. But if focusing on similarities, then it is indisputably clear that Android and iOS are both designed to allow Google and Apple, respectively,^1 to conduct surveillance, data collection and provide ad services 1. Apple also allows Google to collect data from iOS users via default web search in exchange for recurring payement of several billion dollars https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/apples-eddy-cue-defends-default-search-contract-with-google-in-trial.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/apples-eddy-cue-defends-defa... One of the other facts that the court learned from the expert tetimony in this case is that defaults matter. If generally no one uses the "toggles", then Apple and Google operate as if they have "consent" to collect data, as if the computer owner voluntarily toggled "Allow surveillance, data collection and ads" to "ON" "In-app advertising" is a growing business for Apple https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/global-app-store-helps-developers-reach-new-heights/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/global-app-store-help... By design, in order to serve ads to iOS users, an app needs internet connectivity. Even when the app has no need for internet connectivity otherwise

grues-dinner 1y ago

> By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. It does seem like the number one permission you might wish to choose not to grant, doesn't it? In a privacy-first design there could also be an API for an encrypted channel that the user has access to, rather than allowing the device to send mysterious black-box data from your device on your behalf in the background whenever it wants. Though I suppose it would just turn into base64 "plaintext" payloads quickly and become normalised rather than a neon sign of fuckery afoot.

lreeves 1y ago

On iOS you can deny an app cellular data access which accomplishes this, as long as you don't launch it on Wifi. But yes I too wish I could deny apps internet access completely.

1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
"... as long as you don't launch it on WiFi." Unfortunately, apps can still connect even when they are not "launched" There are ways to deny apps internet access completely. But this is not something that is provided by Apple or Google

realo 1y ago

It would be cool to have some form of filtering vpn to do just that and easy to deploy on a personal vm provider. Maybe I should ask Claude Code to kludge together something.

1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago

To me, the differences between iOS and Android are insignificant. Both corporate OS suck, and there are other corporate OS that suck, too The fundamental similarity is that Apple does not protect the Apple computer owner^1 from Apple anymore than Google protects Android users from Google Like Google, Apple collects data and profits from ad services. The Apple hardware buyer becomes the product after purchase. Apple profits from selling access to the hardware owner to myriad third parties. It's always making deals Like the one with Google we learned about in the government's antitrust case. But I digress There was a meme something like, "Unless you're paying, you are the product". But it's also possible to pay and be the product. For example, when someone purchases an individual Windows license from Microsoft, after purchase the company is still going to _require_ them to create an "account", connect to the internet and be subjected to data collection Both iOS and Android have "app stores" (MS copies this, too), both expect and intend these "app stores" to earn them revenue from advertising, e.g., allowing apps to do surveillance, data collections and show ads 1. who is forced to use iOS. No "unlocked" bootloaders. No custom ROMs

port11 1y ago
This is a disingenuous take that punishes companies with better data collection practices. iOS has many toggles for disabling data collection, ad personalisation, limit apps from tracking you with more persistent techniques, and so on. I'd never defend Apple willy-nilly: they're a megacorp that defrauds the European consumer and is hostile to much I care about. But there is a world of difference between Android and iOS in terms of the protections afforded to the user. Of course most people just don't know where the toggles and settings are that protect them on iOS.
1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
There are no "toggles" that protect iOS users from data collection and surveillance by Apple Today's Apple computers try to ping Apple servers the moment they are powered on for the first time. The devices incessantly try to "phone home". Apple's definition of "privacy" does not include privacy from Apple. That is not a coincidence There is no "toggle" to enable this "convenience", i.e., usage of Apple servers, because it is, by design, on by default This is not an opinion or a perspective (a "take"). It is a fact, verifiable with tcpdump or the like One can focus on differences or one can focus on similarities. Many online commentators choose the former. But if focusing on similarities, then it is indisputably clear that Android and iOS are both designed to allow Google and Apple, respectively,^1 to conduct surveillance, data collection and provide ad services 1. Apple also allows Google to collect data from iOS users via default web search in exchange for recurring payement of several billion dollars https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/apples-eddy-cue-defends-default-search-contract-with-google-in-trial.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/apples-eddy-cue-defends-defa... One of the other facts that the court learned from the expert tetimony in this case is that defaults matter. If generally no one uses the "toggles", then Apple and Google operate as if they have "consent" to collect data, as if the computer owner voluntarily toggled "Allow surveillance, data collection and ads" to "ON" "In-app advertising" is a growing business for Apple https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/global-app-store-helps-developers-reach-new-heights/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/global-app-store-help... By design, in order to serve ads to iOS users, an app needs internet connectivity. Even when the app has no need for internet connectivity otherwise