6 ms·

The issue isn't that there's a lot of change coming from inside the markets, it's that there's a lot of change coming from outside the market, and it's all inte

The issue isn't that there's a lot of change coming from inside the markets, it's that there's a lot of change coming from outside the market, and it's all interconnected.

CyberDildonics 1y ago
In a millionth of a second? This a rationalization for something that is only being done because it can be done.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  When I press the buy and sell button, I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. My millionth of a second is different than yours, and everyone else’s. It is no different than buying or selling anything else. And there is no loss from the additional liquidity, you can easily set a limit at which you want to buy or sell.
  - cool_dude85 1y ago
    >When I press the buy and sell button, I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. Nope, not me. I don't mind if it takes like 20 seconds or so.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > not me. I don't mind if it takes like 20 seconds or so Which is fine! You can probably find a broker who will give you fee-free trading with that preference. The price you execute at won’t be as good. But unless you’re trading millions, that’s probably fine.
  - CyberDildonics 1y ago
    > My millionth of a second is different than yours, and everyone else’s. No it isn't. > I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. Your monitor refresh is about 16,000 times slower so you aren't going to know. The only reason you need something faster is because you think you have to compete with other people trading on microseconds. If matches happened at 1 second intervals you wouldn't have to worry about it at all.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > If matches happened at 1 second intervals you wouldn't have to worry about it at all This is nonsense. There is still advantage to submitting your trade as close to that settlement deadline as possible.
      - CyberDildonics 1y ago
        Not so much if the submitted prices are hidden until the matches are resolved.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Not so much if the submitted prices are hidden until the matches are resolved Except every other exchange is still revolving. The only way to implement this is to eliminate competition between exchanges. Also, Wall Street would love this. The more of the order book you submitted, the more information you have about its composition.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        CyberDildonics 1y ago
        The only way to implement this is to eliminate competition between exchanges. There are two different things being talked about here. Trading based on arbitrage between exchanges will happen in one way or another no matter what. Trading millions of times per second automatically on the same exchange when some people have low latency computers at the exchange with huge amounts of extra information is not necessary. Also, Wall Street would love this. The more of the order book you submitted, the more information you have about its composition. The point isn't to make something 'wall street hates' it's to make something that doesn't get money eaten away by automated computers in the middle so that it's the best option for people making trading decisions on people time scales.
        1y ago
- resters 1y ago
  I think you are letting your "speculation is bad" bias interfere with your understanding of dynamical systems.
  - CyberDildonics 1y ago
    I think you're hallucinating something I didn't say to avoid confronting what I did say. Also what's the difference between a system, a dynamic system and a 'dynamical' system?
    - resters 1y ago
      The behavior of other participants is itself a first-class signal. Rule 611 compresses that signal. By forcing everything to orbit a size-agnostic NBBO, it collapses a lot of the “behavioral bandwidth” (depth, imbalance, sweep patterns, replenishment, cancel/replace cadence) into a single top-of-book tick. Less resolution, less information. High-resolution flow tells you who wants what, at what size, and how urgently. When we gate execution through protected quotes, we encourage tactics that flick the top-of-book with tiny size and discourage truthful size revelation. That’s signal destruction dressed up as protection. Letting informed counterparties print away from the protected price (to reflect size or information) increases informational content. You get cleaner read-through from actual willingness to trade, instead of a compliance-driven dance around a fragile benchmark. So yes: other people’s actions are the best data feed. The more of that behavior we can see—in size, time, and venue—the better our discovery gets. 611 reduces that visibility by design.
      - CyberDildonics 1y ago
        the better our discovery gets The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean.
        resters 1y ago
        All participants contribute to price discovery. A nanosecond order book helps with price discovery the deeper it is, regardless of whether orders clear. > The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean. I think you're trolling with this one. But you had an advantage typing your comment into a web browser compared to all the people who wrote theirs on paper and put it in an envelope with a stamp.

The issue isn't that there's a lot of change coming from inside the markets, it's that there's a lot of change coming from outside the market, and it's all interconnected.

CyberDildonics 1y ago

In a millionth of a second? This a rationalization for something that is only being done because it can be done.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
When I press the buy and sell button, I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. My millionth of a second is different than yours, and everyone else’s. It is no different than buying or selling anything else. And there is no loss from the additional liquidity, you can easily set a limit at which you want to buy or sell.
- cool_dude85 1y ago
  >When I press the buy and sell button, I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. Nope, not me. I don't mind if it takes like 20 seconds or so.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > not me. I don't mind if it takes like 20 seconds or so Which is fine! You can probably find a broker who will give you fee-free trading with that preference. The price you execute at won’t be as good. But unless you’re trading millions, that’s probably fine.
- CyberDildonics 1y ago
  > My millionth of a second is different than yours, and everyone else’s. No it isn't. > I want the transaction to happen as quickly as possible. So does everyone else. Your monitor refresh is about 16,000 times slower so you aren't going to know. The only reason you need something faster is because you think you have to compete with other people trading on microseconds. If matches happened at 1 second intervals you wouldn't have to worry about it at all.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > If matches happened at 1 second intervals you wouldn't have to worry about it at all This is nonsense. There is still advantage to submitting your trade as close to that settlement deadline as possible.
    - CyberDildonics 1y ago
      Not so much if the submitted prices are hidden until the matches are resolved.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Not so much if the submitted prices are hidden until the matches are resolved Except every other exchange is still revolving. The only way to implement this is to eliminate competition between exchanges. Also, Wall Street would love this. The more of the order book you submitted, the more information you have about its composition.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        CyberDildonics 1y ago
        The only way to implement this is to eliminate competition between exchanges. There are two different things being talked about here. Trading based on arbitrage between exchanges will happen in one way or another no matter what. Trading millions of times per second automatically on the same exchange when some people have low latency computers at the exchange with huge amounts of extra information is not necessary. Also, Wall Street would love this. The more of the order book you submitted, the more information you have about its composition. The point isn't to make something 'wall street hates' it's to make something that doesn't get money eaten away by automated computers in the middle so that it's the best option for people making trading decisions on people time scales.
        1y ago
resters 1y ago
I think you are letting your "speculation is bad" bias interfere with your understanding of dynamical systems.
- CyberDildonics 1y ago
  I think you're hallucinating something I didn't say to avoid confronting what I did say. Also what's the difference between a system, a dynamic system and a 'dynamical' system?
  - resters 1y ago
    The behavior of other participants is itself a first-class signal. Rule 611 compresses that signal. By forcing everything to orbit a size-agnostic NBBO, it collapses a lot of the “behavioral bandwidth” (depth, imbalance, sweep patterns, replenishment, cancel/replace cadence) into a single top-of-book tick. Less resolution, less information. High-resolution flow tells you who wants what, at what size, and how urgently. When we gate execution through protected quotes, we encourage tactics that flick the top-of-book with tiny size and discourage truthful size revelation. That’s signal destruction dressed up as protection. Letting informed counterparties print away from the protected price (to reflect size or information) increases informational content. You get cleaner read-through from actual willingness to trade, instead of a compliance-driven dance around a fragile benchmark. So yes: other people’s actions are the best data feed. The more of that behavior we can see—in size, time, and venue—the better our discovery gets. 611 reduces that visibility by design.
    - CyberDildonics 1y ago
      the better our discovery gets The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean.
      - resters 1y ago
        All participants contribute to price discovery. A nanosecond order book helps with price discovery the deeper it is, regardless of whether orders clear. > The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean. I think you're trolling with this one. But you had an advantage typing your comment into a web browser compared to all the people who wrote theirs on paper and put it in an envelope with a stamp.