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Absolutely not. These jerks are very clearly posturing to consolidate all the power into ICE and private contractors to punish political and ideological opposit

Absolutely not. These jerks are very clearly posturing to consolidate all the power into ICE and private contractors to punish political and ideological opposition to their little ethnic nationalism project. She gets credit for being complicit in a violent overthrow of the Democratic government of the united States. Go read the latest national security memo and ask yourself, if they carry that through as written will you feel safe to show up at the airport?

bilbo0s 1y ago
I don't know about the violent overthrow stuff, but you're absolutely right about the simple consolidation of Constitutional violations with respect to travel into FBI and ICE. But that's how politics work, if you wave around a shiny bauble above your head in your right hand, most people are wayyy too slow to remember to look at what you're doing under the table with your left hand. I think that's the dynamic that the original comment is evidence of.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  Whole heartedly agree. The violent overthrow stuff is reference to current attempts to send the US military into blue states against court orders, to drum up the insurrection act, to the violent arrests of children in their underwear as a publicity stunt, to ICE officers / bounty hunters ramming cars into pedestrians without recourse, to the slamming of non-violent bystanders into the ground, arresting elected officials violently for no reason, to the psychological violence of the rhetoric being broadcast ("Russ Vought is the reaper") along with Stephen Miller's rhetoric in general but specifically about how many 10s of millions of people don't belong in this country in his mind. Brown people is who he's talking about. They want ethnic cleansing and are openly blatant about it if you open your ears to exactly what they're saying. Sure they'll also deny it at other times, opportunistically, but if you listen to what they're saying in full, not just to denials, they're spelling it out. Go listen to the leaked Russ Vought interview about his strategy and tell me that's not incredibly violent. Listen to Stephen Miller's rhetoric. These guys are itching to arrest elected officials and political critics, and to go as far as they can to hurt and punish people who push back against the state that they're hell bent on forcing into existence. If you haven't seen these things I urge you to pay attention.
  - RajT88 1y ago
    This is a thing that happened: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/plenary-authority-stephen-miller-cnn-dictator-b2841627.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
- throw0101a 1y ago
  > I don't know about the violent overthrow stuff […] Do you mean besides January 6? (You know, all those people that were convicted but were pardoned when Trump return to office. Also: have you noticed that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have stopped marching ever since the ICE raids started?) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito... Or perhaps the fake electors? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot
  - blurbleblurble 1y ago
    That's because they're now hired as ICE agents and bounty hunters.
nokun7 1y ago
> She gets credit for being complicit in a violent overthrow of the Democratic government of the united States. Care to elaborate what is this in reference to? Especially the "violent" part. Please do not simply link to some news article in your response.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45517188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45517188 Maybe later I'll compile a list of videos but at the moment I ask you to do a little research yourself. I gotta work.
causal 1y ago
I mean that's the narrative but can you provide any evidence this is happening with the Quiet Skies program?
themgt 1y ago
I'm going to take the bold stance that the executive putting their political opponents on a TSA watchlist is bad, regardless of which party is doing it.
- vkou 1y ago
  It's worse when they sic ICE (and the military for the cherry on top) against them, the TSA at least has the decency to keep its hands in the airport. --- Using the military against your political enemies, by the way, is a genie that you can never put back in the bottle. I am very tired of people who are more concerned with scoring points about 'look, both sides!' while turning a blind eye to the actual we-went-through-a-phase-change insanity of what's going on. The last two hundred years was built on a bargain of the military staying out of politics in exchange for the military not being used politically. This year, MAGA sent a giant fucking wrecking ball through that.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  Doesn’t change the fact that they’re just changing the mechanism for doing the same thing but even more aggressively.
- trhway 1y ago
  >executive putting their political opponents on a TSA watchlist is bad Just wait a year or two and it will become totally normalized. Remember those Cristie's stuffers which went to prison for closing bridge for several days in the city which went Democratic? It was just few years ago that such political retribution was considered a Bad Thing. Today it is just a new normal in politics.
  - lesuorac 1y ago
    > Today it is just a new normal in politics. Yeah because they got released from prison ... When there's no punishment for bad behavior it normalizes it.
JuniperMesos 1y ago
ICE has extremely little power to punish people who are citizens of the united states, something not true of the TSA. If the federal government consolidates power in ICE and private contractors for ICE, then this is likely marginally better for US citizens than the status quo.
- burkaman 1y ago
  They have immense power to punish anyone they feel like, and they can and do detain and deport US citizens. They don't give a shit that it's illegal, they're doing it anyway and they won't stop until they are removed from power. They have and will continue to ignore any court orders telling them to stop. Here's a good overview, please take a look at the sources if you don't trust Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_American_citizens_in_the_second_Trump_administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_A...
  - pandaman 1y ago
    They don't deport American citizens even if wiki editors are hoping a low IQ reader won't check references and just read the title. The cases they mention are illegal parents taking their technically American citizen children with them. If you want to blame someone for "deporting citizens" then blame the illegals.
    - burkaman 1y ago
      Thanks for taking a look, please let me know your justification for the Miguel Silvestre case as well.
      - pandaman 1y ago
        The one who was first deported in 1999? From what a quick search shows - most likely not a citizen.
- delecti 1y ago
  ICE doesn't have legal authority to punish people. Despite that, they are actively doing it all over the country at this very moment. At least if a TSA agent got a bug up his ass and decided to fuck up your day, you'd probably still walk out of the airport unencumbered by handcuffs. ICE might just black bag you and ship you out of the country.
efitz 1y ago
Are you so nakedly partisan that you can’t accept a win at face value? Gabbard et al were targeted by Quiet Skies. It was mentioned many times during the campaign and during the administration. I don’t think Noem is Machiavelli; the administration clearly signaled an intent to end this and it doesn’t surprise me that they did so and I think there were valid reasons given and I accept that anything politicians do may ALSO have a political goal in mind but doesn’t make their stated reasons insincere.
- lesuorac 1y ago
  Looking at partisan actors at face value is just going to lead you to a trap. Literally from the article: "News reports, presumably based on DHS statements, described Quiet Skies as a “Biden-era” program even though its largest expansion came in 2018 during the first Trump administration. And according to the TSA’s press release last week:". There's no way a program expanded during Trump1 just disappears in Trump2. Everything Trump2 is doing is just a continuation from Trump1.
- lazyeye 1y ago
  I find that naked partisanship is the rule rather than the exception on HN. Papered over with a bit of motivated "logic" but this is mostly just window-dressing.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  This is beyond partisan. In no way does this administration faithfully represent conservative constituents, nor the hostage GOP politicians that prop it up in their total duress. "Quiet skies" pales in comparison to what they're cooking up: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-commo... And this: https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7imutpx4wxfzub554r/bafkreihbib2ynq5mgshqf5o2vnxm34otf2btabpo4e7n3ezyp67nb43ufi@jpeg https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7... https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7imutpx4wxfzub554r/bafkreig6ncchmdulzgzkl7j2lmws3tb35buk464wqjini3z6g6bldoyai4@jpeg https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7... And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXX8HPh6nQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXX8HPh6nQ It's a takeover: https://climate-reporting.org/undercover-in-project-2025/ https://climate-reporting.org/undercover-in-project-2025/

bilbo0s 1y ago

I don't know about the violent overthrow stuff, but you're absolutely right about the simple consolidation of Constitutional violations with respect to travel into FBI and ICE. But that's how politics work, if you wave around a shiny bauble above your head in your right hand, most people are wayyy too slow to remember to look at what you're doing under the table with your left hand. I think that's the dynamic that the original comment is evidence of.

blurbleblurble 1y ago
Whole heartedly agree. The violent overthrow stuff is reference to current attempts to send the US military into blue states against court orders, to drum up the insurrection act, to the violent arrests of children in their underwear as a publicity stunt, to ICE officers / bounty hunters ramming cars into pedestrians without recourse, to the slamming of non-violent bystanders into the ground, arresting elected officials violently for no reason, to the psychological violence of the rhetoric being broadcast ("Russ Vought is the reaper") along with Stephen Miller's rhetoric in general but specifically about how many 10s of millions of people don't belong in this country in his mind. Brown people is who he's talking about. They want ethnic cleansing and are openly blatant about it if you open your ears to exactly what they're saying. Sure they'll also deny it at other times, opportunistically, but if you listen to what they're saying in full, not just to denials, they're spelling it out. Go listen to the leaked Russ Vought interview about his strategy and tell me that's not incredibly violent. Listen to Stephen Miller's rhetoric. These guys are itching to arrest elected officials and political critics, and to go as far as they can to hurt and punish people who push back against the state that they're hell bent on forcing into existence. If you haven't seen these things I urge you to pay attention.
- RajT88 1y ago
  This is a thing that happened: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/plenary-authority-stephen-miller-cnn-dictator-b2841627.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
throw0101a 1y ago
> I don't know about the violent overthrow stuff […] Do you mean besides January 6? (You know, all those people that were convicted but were pardoned when Trump return to office. Also: have you noticed that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have stopped marching ever since the ICE raids started?) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito... Or perhaps the fake electors? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  That's because they're now hired as ICE agents and bounty hunters.

nokun7 1y ago

> She gets credit for being complicit in a violent overthrow of the Democratic government of the united States. Care to elaborate what is this in reference to? Especially the "violent" part. Please do not simply link to some news article in your response.

blurbleblurble 1y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45517188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45517188 Maybe later I'll compile a list of videos but at the moment I ask you to do a little research yourself. I gotta work.

causal 1y ago

I mean that's the narrative but can you provide any evidence this is happening with the Quiet Skies program?

themgt 1y ago

I'm going to take the bold stance that the executive putting their political opponents on a TSA watchlist is bad, regardless of which party is doing it.

vkou 1y ago
It's worse when they sic ICE (and the military for the cherry on top) against them, the TSA at least has the decency to keep its hands in the airport. --- Using the military against your political enemies, by the way, is a genie that you can never put back in the bottle. I am very tired of people who are more concerned with scoring points about 'look, both sides!' while turning a blind eye to the actual we-went-through-a-phase-change insanity of what's going on. The last two hundred years was built on a bargain of the military staying out of politics in exchange for the military not being used politically. This year, MAGA sent a giant fucking wrecking ball through that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
Forgeties79 1y ago
Doesn’t change the fact that they’re just changing the mechanism for doing the same thing but even more aggressively.
trhway 1y ago
>executive putting their political opponents on a TSA watchlist is bad Just wait a year or two and it will become totally normalized. Remember those Cristie's stuffers which went to prison for closing bridge for several days in the city which went Democratic? It was just few years ago that such political retribution was considered a Bad Thing. Today it is just a new normal in politics.
- lesuorac 1y ago
  > Today it is just a new normal in politics. Yeah because they got released from prison ... When there's no punishment for bad behavior it normalizes it.

JuniperMesos 1y ago

ICE has extremely little power to punish people who are citizens of the united states, something not true of the TSA. If the federal government consolidates power in ICE and private contractors for ICE, then this is likely marginally better for US citizens than the status quo.

burkaman 1y ago
They have immense power to punish anyone they feel like, and they can and do detain and deport US citizens. They don't give a shit that it's illegal, they're doing it anyway and they won't stop until they are removed from power. They have and will continue to ignore any court orders telling them to stop. Here's a good overview, please take a look at the sources if you don't trust Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_American_citizens_in_the_second_Trump_administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_and_deportation_of_A...
- pandaman 1y ago
  They don't deport American citizens even if wiki editors are hoping a low IQ reader won't check references and just read the title. The cases they mention are illegal parents taking their technically American citizen children with them. If you want to blame someone for "deporting citizens" then blame the illegals.
  - burkaman 1y ago
    Thanks for taking a look, please let me know your justification for the Miguel Silvestre case as well.
    - pandaman 1y ago
      The one who was first deported in 1999? From what a quick search shows - most likely not a citizen.
delecti 1y ago
ICE doesn't have legal authority to punish people. Despite that, they are actively doing it all over the country at this very moment. At least if a TSA agent got a bug up his ass and decided to fuck up your day, you'd probably still walk out of the airport unencumbered by handcuffs. ICE might just black bag you and ship you out of the country.

efitz 1y ago

Are you so nakedly partisan that you can’t accept a win at face value? Gabbard et al were targeted by Quiet Skies. It was mentioned many times during the campaign and during the administration. I don’t think Noem is Machiavelli; the administration clearly signaled an intent to end this and it doesn’t surprise me that they did so and I think there were valid reasons given and I accept that anything politicians do may ALSO have a political goal in mind but doesn’t make their stated reasons insincere.

lesuorac 1y ago
Looking at partisan actors at face value is just going to lead you to a trap. Literally from the article: "News reports, presumably based on DHS statements, described Quiet Skies as a “Biden-era” program even though its largest expansion came in 2018 during the first Trump administration. And according to the TSA’s press release last week:". There's no way a program expanded during Trump1 just disappears in Trump2. Everything Trump2 is doing is just a continuation from Trump1.
lazyeye 1y ago
I find that naked partisanship is the rule rather than the exception on HN. Papered over with a bit of motivated "logic" but this is mostly just window-dressing.
blurbleblurble 1y ago
This is beyond partisan. In no way does this administration faithfully represent conservative constituents, nor the hostage GOP politicians that prop it up in their total duress. "Quiet skies" pales in comparison to what they're cooking up: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-commo... And this: https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7imutpx4wxfzub554r/bafkreihbib2ynq5mgshqf5o2vnxm34otf2btabpo4e7n3ezyp67nb43ufi@jpeg https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7... https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7imutpx4wxfzub554r/bafkreig6ncchmdulzgzkl7j2lmws3tb35buk464wqjini3z6g6bldoyai4@jpeg https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:4q6ctl7... And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXX8HPh6nQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXX8HPh6nQ It's a takeover: https://climate-reporting.org/undercover-in-project-2025/ https://climate-reporting.org/undercover-in-project-2025/