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> "[...] A dialogue between well-connected lobbyists and bureaucrats, and everyone else should just shut up and take it?" Why, yes... that's exactly what the t

> "[...] A dialogue between well-connected lobbyists and bureaucrats, and everyone else should just shut up and take it?" Why, yes... that's exactly what the types of outfits like the European People's Party [1] expect on many things. But year after year these incompetent grouches get the majority of votes. And that's before one has to deal with the full-blown far right, fascists, and the like (e. g. ESN [2], PfE [3], et cetera). 1. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_People's_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_People's_Party] 2. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_of_Sovereign_Nations_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_of_Sovereign_Nations_Gr...] 3. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots_for_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots_for_Europe]

port11 1y ago
Given the dealings with Pfizer and the blocking of an ethics committee, why, yes, the EPP prefers lobbying to remain opaque.
ncruces 1y ago
This is not a left-right issue. You have the danish S&Ds pushing it and ALDE opposing it.
- mrandish 1y ago
  Agreed. Even in the U.S. personal privacy is not a left/right issue. Both major political parties will sometimes pay lip service to privacy when campaigning yet when in power they both engineer votes that permit further erosion of privacy rights and expand exceptions for law enforcement and intelligence agencies to vacuum up personal data from citizens with little oversight.
- spankibalt 1y ago
  Conservatives and allied centrists have, and traditionally always had, much more access to the levers of power than leftists even in democratic countries. And right-wingers will oppose such intrusive government power only until they get to be the ones calling the shots and it's finally time to "drain the swamp". ;) Besides, your reading of the decidedly centrist Danish Socialdemokraterne as leftists is bizarre to me, especially since they moved more and more towards the right. Something they share with other classic social democrat, i. e. centrist (status quo), parties in the S&D, e. g. their German compatriots from the SPD.
  - ncruces 1y ago
    In the past half century, “progressives” have pushed through huge societal advances (particularly) across Europe in areas of family rights, women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, worker's rights. Things that were anathema in my very Catholic country just 20 years ago (divorce, abortion, gay marriage, assisted dying, but also maximum work hours, minimum wage policies, equal pay policies, women's quotas, tax funded subsidies/pensions for people who never contributed to social security, etc) are now so mainstream that even “conservatives” (never mind “centrists”) have co-opted most of them. But for certain leftists, “ideological purity” apparently trumps all of those advancements. Now, we're starting to find out what “ideological purity” looks like when that gets co-opted by the right side of the spectrum. And it's not pretty.
    - spankibalt 1y ago
      > "In the past half century, “progressives” have pushed through huge societal advances (particularly) across Europe in areas of family rights, women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, worker's rights." Progressives, sans scare quotes, fought long and hard for lobbying access to get the parties in power push through what should be considered basic human rights in any civilized society. > "Things that were anathema in my very Catholic country just 20 years ago [...] are now so mainstream that even “conservatives” (never mind “centrists”) have co-opted most of them." In my reality, many conservatives, especially of the clerical variety, are very busy rolling back these basic human rights. And their centrist allies play ball. As usual. > "Now, we're starting to find out what 'ideological purity' looks like when that gets co-opted by the right side of the spectrum." Starting to find out? You sound like you labor under the absurd illusion that conservatives/right-wingers of any couleur never had some sort of ideological ideal they tried to pitch to hoi polloi. Well, there's enough libraries worth of works to cure someone of that misbelief.
      - ncruces 1y ago
        None of my quotes should scare you. What you might call progressives, liberals, centrists, whatever, varies widely across the EU. That's the only reason I've put those terms in quotes.

port11 1y ago

Given the dealings with Pfizer and the blocking of an ethics committee, why, yes, the EPP prefers lobbying to remain opaque.

ncruces 1y ago

This is not a left-right issue. You have the danish S&Ds pushing it and ALDE opposing it.

mrandish 1y ago
Agreed. Even in the U.S. personal privacy is not a left/right issue. Both major political parties will sometimes pay lip service to privacy when campaigning yet when in power they both engineer votes that permit further erosion of privacy rights and expand exceptions for law enforcement and intelligence agencies to vacuum up personal data from citizens with little oversight.
spankibalt 1y ago
Conservatives and allied centrists have, and traditionally always had, much more access to the levers of power than leftists even in democratic countries. And right-wingers will oppose such intrusive government power only until they get to be the ones calling the shots and it's finally time to "drain the swamp". ;) Besides, your reading of the decidedly centrist Danish Socialdemokraterne as leftists is bizarre to me, especially since they moved more and more towards the right. Something they share with other classic social democrat, i. e. centrist (status quo), parties in the S&D, e. g. their German compatriots from the SPD.
- ncruces 1y ago
  In the past half century, “progressives” have pushed through huge societal advances (particularly) across Europe in areas of family rights, women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, worker's rights. Things that were anathema in my very Catholic country just 20 years ago (divorce, abortion, gay marriage, assisted dying, but also maximum work hours, minimum wage policies, equal pay policies, women's quotas, tax funded subsidies/pensions for people who never contributed to social security, etc) are now so mainstream that even “conservatives” (never mind “centrists”) have co-opted most of them. But for certain leftists, “ideological purity” apparently trumps all of those advancements. Now, we're starting to find out what “ideological purity” looks like when that gets co-opted by the right side of the spectrum. And it's not pretty.
  - spankibalt 1y ago
    > "In the past half century, “progressives” have pushed through huge societal advances (particularly) across Europe in areas of family rights, women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, worker's rights." Progressives, sans scare quotes, fought long and hard for lobbying access to get the parties in power push through what should be considered basic human rights in any civilized society. > "Things that were anathema in my very Catholic country just 20 years ago [...] are now so mainstream that even “conservatives” (never mind “centrists”) have co-opted most of them." In my reality, many conservatives, especially of the clerical variety, are very busy rolling back these basic human rights. And their centrist allies play ball. As usual. > "Now, we're starting to find out what 'ideological purity' looks like when that gets co-opted by the right side of the spectrum." Starting to find out? You sound like you labor under the absurd illusion that conservatives/right-wingers of any couleur never had some sort of ideological ideal they tried to pitch to hoi polloi. Well, there's enough libraries worth of works to cure someone of that misbelief.
    - ncruces 1y ago
      None of my quotes should scare you. What you might call progressives, liberals, centrists, whatever, varies widely across the EU. That's the only reason I've put those terms in quotes.