3 ms·

[flagged]

sho_hn 1y ago
It's really not particularly anti-China imho, as indeed the West has its own brand of this in American Exceptionalism in general. We from smaller countries sometimes call this Big Country Syndrome. It's true that China has a lot of affection for the Out of Asia theory of human origin, and to this day there are museums dedicated to the Peking Man that are at the very least heavily suggestive of this, or at least of China's population having a distinct origin. Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man Books and reams of sociology papers can and have been written about the relationship between CCP policy and the Peking Man and the CCPs difficulty with adjusting to today's generally preferred Out of Africa theory, and the effect on Chinese scientists working in anthropology. HN favorite Jimmy Maher (Digital/Analog Antiquarian) has a lovely line of free amateur history books including an excellent one on China that has a chapter on this: https://analog-antiquarian.net/2022/01/14/chapter-2-origin-stories/ https://analog-antiquarian.net/2022/01/14/chapter-2-origin-s... I think it's a useful approach to contemporary Chinese identity. Nothing anti about that, any good-natured attempt to grok China would include this, just as no diatribe on America is complete without mentioning the 30-something % of Americans who state belief in some form of Creationism when polled.
vintermann 1y ago
I don't think less of China for containing a, shall we say, "patriotic" paleoanthropology community. Not any more than I think less of the US for the Book of Mormon being a thing. God knows we have these subcultures in Europe too. But it is a thing and you need to be aware of it. A result from China which seems to support an out of China theory rather than an out of Africa theory, I am immediately suspicious of. And you know, just because you and I don't bristle at the thought of descending from ancient Kenyans, lots of other people all over the world do. It's not just "regular" racists, also a lot of e.g. indigenous protected groups.
- whimsicalism 1y ago
  Given what we now know about backmigration and intermixing (particularly with Denisovans), it's really not coherent to say any "out of" theory is the Truth. Sure, modern homo sapiens outside of Africa are all descendants of a founding group that left Africa, but they are also descendants of hominids who returned to Africa from elsewhere as well as local hominid populations that had left Africa far earlier (like Neanderthals and Denisovans).
  - Retric 1y ago
    Out of Africa has meaningful consequences even if people mixed back in. For example our closest evolutionary cousins should barring evidence to the contrary also tend to hail from Africa as well. It’s that kind of reasoning that makes it important to try and be accurate here. Not a fact in isolation but everything else that it implies.
    - whimsicalism 1y ago
      It's all a matter of how far back you look.
      - Retric 1y ago
        The time period you look at also informs what you can extract from that analysis. So it’s not an arbitrary choice free from consequences.
petercooper 1y ago
do Americans think higher about Europe just because ancestors of many of them came from there? Not happening. I agree with you on the Sinophobia, but interest in the British royal family/British history generally and interest in Irish heritage are extremely common among groups of Americans. Most British visitors to the US can attest to how their accent is interpreted and affects treatment, in a positive sense, too.
dang 1y ago
Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

It's really not particularly anti-China imho, as indeed the West has its own brand of this in American Exceptionalism in general. We from smaller countries sometimes call this Big Country Syndrome. It's true that China has a lot of affection for the Out of Asia theory of human origin, and to this day there are museums dedicated to the Peking Man that are at the very least heavily suggestive of this, or at least of China's population having a distinct origin. Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man Books and reams of sociology papers can and have been written about the relationship between CCP policy and the Peking Man and the CCPs difficulty with adjusting to today's generally preferred Out of Africa theory, and the effect on Chinese scientists working in anthropology. HN favorite Jimmy Maher (Digital/Analog Antiquarian) has a lovely line of free amateur history books including an excellent one on China that has a chapter on this: https://analog-antiquarian.net/2022/01/14/chapter-2-origin-stories/ https://analog-antiquarian.net/2022/01/14/chapter-2-origin-s... I think it's a useful approach to contemporary Chinese identity. Nothing anti about that, any good-natured attempt to grok China would include this, just as no diatribe on America is complete without mentioning the 30-something % of Americans who state belief in some form of Creationism when polled.

vintermann 1y ago

I don't think less of China for containing a, shall we say, "patriotic" paleoanthropology community. Not any more than I think less of the US for the Book of Mormon being a thing. God knows we have these subcultures in Europe too. But it is a thing and you need to be aware of it. A result from China which seems to support an out of China theory rather than an out of Africa theory, I am immediately suspicious of. And you know, just because you and I don't bristle at the thought of descending from ancient Kenyans, lots of other people all over the world do. It's not just "regular" racists, also a lot of e.g. indigenous protected groups.

whimsicalism 1y ago
Given what we now know about backmigration and intermixing (particularly with Denisovans), it's really not coherent to say any "out of" theory is the Truth. Sure, modern homo sapiens outside of Africa are all descendants of a founding group that left Africa, but they are also descendants of hominids who returned to Africa from elsewhere as well as local hominid populations that had left Africa far earlier (like Neanderthals and Denisovans).
- Retric 1y ago
  Out of Africa has meaningful consequences even if people mixed back in. For example our closest evolutionary cousins should barring evidence to the contrary also tend to hail from Africa as well. It’s that kind of reasoning that makes it important to try and be accurate here. Not a fact in isolation but everything else that it implies.
  - whimsicalism 1y ago
    It's all a matter of how far back you look.
    - Retric 1y ago
      The time period you look at also informs what you can extract from that analysis. So it’s not an arbitrary choice free from consequences.

petercooper 1y ago

do Americans think higher about Europe just because ancestors of many of them came from there? Not happening. I agree with you on the Sinophobia, but interest in the British royal family/British history generally and interest in Irish heritage are extremely common among groups of Americans. Most British visitors to the US can attest to how their accent is interpreted and affects treatment, in a positive sense, too.

dang 1y ago

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html