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Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean. Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU c

Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean. Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. A goal that Germany will never reach.

onli 1y ago
Nuclear is not clean. It causes toxic nuclear waste that will still be radioactive when our civilization ends, radiating the humans of the future. CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. > other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surprising giving the EU energy mix and the petrol based traffic sector. Sources please. > Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production Which means 60% is renewable, and that part is actually growing.
- selfmodruntime 1y ago
  > Nuclear is not clean The EU court agrees with me. I trust it to have more knowledge than either of us. Nuclear is low-carbon. End of story. You can deal with toxic waste easily. [1] > adiating the humans of the future. Gas and coal produce more radiation than nuclear energy. > CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. But they would not grow comparable to burning actual stuff. Not even close. You are being disingenious. > No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surprising giving the EU energy mix and the petrol based traffic sector. Sources please. Sorry, mistake on my part, I meant low carbon electricity (so not burning literal poison, like Germany). Let's take France, the very country you critiqued [2]. Or Norway. Or Switzerland [3]. Now, compare it with Germany [4]. Note that every country that achieves a high score can either rely on geothermal energy or hydro, neither of which is reliably useable in Germany. So for anyone who can't make use of these technologies, nuclear is the only option. > Which means 60% is renewable, and that part is actually growing. There is a hard limit here for Germany. We are not a prime candidate for neither wind nor thermal energy, so our renewable mix actually decreased this year, back to 55%. [5] We need a flexible backup option for situations like this. The only option is either continuing to burn dirty fuel, go back to nuclear energy or to make ourselves eternally dependent to buy electricity from other EU states (which is the current plan). [1]: https://apnews.com/article/europe-nuclear-energy-natural-gas-renewables-finance-26c575d819e15ec686ec7e3e8e8e22fc https://apnews.com/article/europe-nuclear-energy-natural-gas... [2]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/France https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/France [3]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Switzerland https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Switzerland [4]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Germany https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Germany [5]: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/slow-wind-speeds-reduce-renewable-share-german-power-2025-07-15 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
  - onli 1y ago
    You can not deal with toxic waste easily, as all attempts to do so have shown. See https://web.archive.org/web/20140508211057/http://www.bfs.de/de/bfs/publikationen/broschueren/transport_lagerung/dezentr_zwischenlager.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140508211057/http://www.bfs.de... for a report. Nuclear energy is decidedly not a flexible backup option for anything. Those plants are slow to regulate, have never been and will never be a backup. The solution is energy storage and producing so much more at the peak that at the low end is enough. Also, there is no problem importing from countries that do have more geothermal or hydro energy. > But they would not grow comparable to burning actual stuff. Not even close. You are being disingenious The comparison is invalid in the first place. It's not about nuclear vs fossil, I never did argue for fossil energy. So the comparison you opened up is bs anyway. It's a propaganda talk point of nuclear proponents that tries to mislead from the actual comparison to make, which is renewables vs the other options. The decision of the EU court was unfortunate, stupid, and that appeal to authority does not function.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      > You can not deal with toxic waste easily, as all attempts to do so have shown. This is, factually speaking, not what attempts have shown. cf. France, cf. Canada. > The comparison is invalid in the first place. It's not about nuclear vs fossil This topic of discussion started with someone explicitly making the comparison about exactly that.
- jaapz 1y ago
  > CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. Not nearly even in the same ballpark as setting fossil fuels on fire, or do you have any sources that show otherwise?
  - onli 1y ago
    The low figure of CO2 usage often cited is based on an estimation you can read at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00472.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.... I don't remember it giving a clear estimate on how much it rises, but that is understandable, as already the current estimate is not a reliable figure. But it's the wrong comparison. Nuclear energy is not to be replaced with fossil energy, but with renewables. So that "advantage" is completely irrelevant.
    - selfmodruntime 1y ago
      > Nuclear energy is not to be replaced with fossil energy, but with renewables. So that "advantage" is completely irrelevant. This is exactly what Germany did tho.
jll29 1y ago
True, nuclear is clean, but only if the final storage question is ignored. (I would have used nuclear reactors for longer, at least so that those that were already built could work until they reach their planned end of life. But until the storage question isn't solved properly, one perhaps should not advocate for new nuclear reactors.) The problem is nobody wants nuclear waste near their front door, even limited politicians were quick to realize that. And yes, Germany's energy mix is a shame.

onli 1y ago

Nuclear is not clean. It causes toxic nuclear waste that will still be radioactive when our civilization ends, radiating the humans of the future. CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. > other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surprising giving the EU energy mix and the petrol based traffic sector. Sources please. > Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production Which means 60% is renewable, and that part is actually growing.

selfmodruntime 1y ago
> Nuclear is not clean The EU court agrees with me. I trust it to have more knowledge than either of us. Nuclear is low-carbon. End of story. You can deal with toxic waste easily. [1] > adiating the humans of the future. Gas and coal produce more radiation than nuclear energy. > CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. But they would not grow comparable to burning actual stuff. Not even close. You are being disingenious. > No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surprising giving the EU energy mix and the petrol based traffic sector. Sources please. Sorry, mistake on my part, I meant low carbon electricity (so not burning literal poison, like Germany). Let's take France, the very country you critiqued [2]. Or Norway. Or Switzerland [3]. Now, compare it with Germany [4]. Note that every country that achieves a high score can either rely on geothermal energy or hydro, neither of which is reliably useable in Germany. So for anyone who can't make use of these technologies, nuclear is the only option. > Which means 60% is renewable, and that part is actually growing. There is a hard limit here for Germany. We are not a prime candidate for neither wind nor thermal energy, so our renewable mix actually decreased this year, back to 55%. [5] We need a flexible backup option for situations like this. The only option is either continuing to burn dirty fuel, go back to nuclear energy or to make ourselves eternally dependent to buy electricity from other EU states (which is the current plan). [1]: https://apnews.com/article/europe-nuclear-energy-natural-gas-renewables-finance-26c575d819e15ec686ec7e3e8e8e22fc https://apnews.com/article/europe-nuclear-energy-natural-gas... [2]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/France https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/France [3]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Switzerland https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Switzerland [4]: https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Germany https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Germany [5]: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/slow-wind-speeds-reduce-renewable-share-german-power-2025-07-15 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
- onli 1y ago
  You can not deal with toxic waste easily, as all attempts to do so have shown. See https://web.archive.org/web/20140508211057/http://www.bfs.de/de/bfs/publikationen/broschueren/transport_lagerung/dezentr_zwischenlager.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20140508211057/http://www.bfs.de... for a report. Nuclear energy is decidedly not a flexible backup option for anything. Those plants are slow to regulate, have never been and will never be a backup. The solution is energy storage and producing so much more at the peak that at the low end is enough. Also, there is no problem importing from countries that do have more geothermal or hydro energy. > But they would not grow comparable to burning actual stuff. Not even close. You are being disingenious The comparison is invalid in the first place. It's not about nuclear vs fossil, I never did argue for fossil energy. So the comparison you opened up is bs anyway. It's a propaganda talk point of nuclear proponents that tries to mislead from the actual comparison to make, which is renewables vs the other options. The decision of the EU court was unfortunate, stupid, and that appeal to authority does not function.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    > You can not deal with toxic waste easily, as all attempts to do so have shown. This is, factually speaking, not what attempts have shown. cf. France, cf. Canada. > The comparison is invalid in the first place. It's not about nuclear vs fossil This topic of discussion started with someone explicitly making the comparison about exactly that.
jaapz 1y ago
> CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. Not nearly even in the same ballpark as setting fossil fuels on fire, or do you have any sources that show otherwise?
- onli 1y ago
  The low figure of CO2 usage often cited is based on an estimation you can read at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00472.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290.... I don't remember it giving a clear estimate on how much it rises, but that is understandable, as already the current estimate is not a reliable figure. But it's the wrong comparison. Nuclear energy is not to be replaced with fossil energy, but with renewables. So that "advantage" is completely irrelevant.
  - selfmodruntime 1y ago
    > Nuclear energy is not to be replaced with fossil energy, but with renewables. So that "advantage" is completely irrelevant. This is exactly what Germany did tho.

jll29 1y ago

True, nuclear is clean, but only if the final storage question is ignored. (I would have used nuclear reactors for longer, at least so that those that were already built could work until they reach their planned end of life. But until the storage question isn't solved properly, one perhaps should not advocate for new nuclear reactors.) The problem is nobody wants nuclear waste near their front door, even limited politicians were quick to realize that. And yes, Germany's energy mix is a shame.