2 ms·

Thumb was originally fixed length yes, but Thumb-2 introduced 32-bit encoded instructions to complete the set, so it's now variable length encoded. Likewise, R

by ummonk 1y ago

Thumb was originally fixed length yes, but Thumb-2 introduced 32-bit encoded instructions to complete the set, so it's now variable length encoded. Likewise, RISC-V Compressed only provides compressed encodings of a subset of RISC-V instructions, so binaries that make use of RISC-V Compressed will be variable-length encoded, mixing 16-bit and 32-bit encoded instructions.

brucehoult 1y ago
Historically, having two instruction lengths was common or even the norm for RISC and RISC-like (before the name was made up) register-rich load/store machines including CDC6600, Cray 1, IBM 801 (original 24 bit version), Berkeley RISC-II. It was only RISC ISAs introduced between 1985 (Arm, MIPS, SPARC) and 1992 (DEC Alpha) that had fixed-length 4 byte instructions -- a mere eight years out of the 60 year history of RISC designs.
- ummonk 1y ago
  Fair point on the RISC-II having non-fixed instruction sizes. In any case, I think it's weird that we've experienced semantic drift to the point that architectures with instruction sets that are too large and complex to be considered reduced get referred to as RISC simply because they're load-store architectures with lots of registers.
  - brucehoult 1y ago
    Which do you have in mind? I don't think newer things labelled as "RISC" have significantly (if at all) exceeded original 1985 ARM for complexity of an individual instruction, or 1990 IBM RS/6000 for sheer number of instructions, so unless you have a newer example this "semantic drift" happened 35-40 years ago in the first 5-10 years after publication of the first RISC papers. Arm64 of course hits both axes. While I think having a small number of instructions (at least optionally) is desirable for a number of reasons I don't see that as defining RISC. RISC is, I think, about instructions being uniform enough to not complicate the execution pipeline. If you keep the instructions to reading two registers and writing a result to one register, preferably after 1 clock cycle, then I don't think there is any number of different operations available on those 2 operands that would make something be not RISC any more. Some people think it's ok to read 3 input registers -- again, Arm since 1985. And everyone in floating point, since `±A*B±C` is the fundamental and most common operation in floating point algorithms and IEEE 754-2008 mandates that the operation be done without intermediate rounding. There are some manufacturers who have apparently thought "RISC" is a good marketing thing and put the label on things that I don't consider to be RISC. For example Microchip claims 8 bit PIC is RISC. It certainly isn't -- it's a classic accumulator architecture (as are Intel 8051 and 8080 and MOS 6602) with Acc-Mem and Mem-Acc instructions. Calling memory "registers" doesn't change that On the other hand Atmel AVR is clearly RISC. Also TI market the MSP430 as RISC. It's a lovely little minimalist 16 bit ISA very similar to PDP-11 and, like PDP-11, all the 2-operand arithmetic operations can be done memory-to-memory which is a definite RISC no-no. Original M68000 - also PDP-11 like -- has a better claim to being RISC as (like 8086) it at least kept everything except MOV{B,W,L} down to reg-mem. But, no, PIC and MSP430 are not RISC despite their manufacturers saying they are.

by ummonk 1y ago

brucehoult 1y ago

Historically, having two instruction lengths was common or even the norm for RISC and RISC-like (before the name was made up) register-rich load/store machines including CDC6600, Cray 1, IBM 801 (original 24 bit version), Berkeley RISC-II. It was only RISC ISAs introduced between 1985 (Arm, MIPS, SPARC) and 1992 (DEC Alpha) that had fixed-length 4 byte instructions -- a mere eight years out of the 60 year history of RISC designs.

ummonk 1y ago
Fair point on the RISC-II having non-fixed instruction sizes. In any case, I think it's weird that we've experienced semantic drift to the point that architectures with instruction sets that are too large and complex to be considered reduced get referred to as RISC simply because they're load-store architectures with lots of registers.
- brucehoult 1y ago
  Which do you have in mind? I don't think newer things labelled as "RISC" have significantly (if at all) exceeded original 1985 ARM for complexity of an individual instruction, or 1990 IBM RS/6000 for sheer number of instructions, so unless you have a newer example this "semantic drift" happened 35-40 years ago in the first 5-10 years after publication of the first RISC papers. Arm64 of course hits both axes. While I think having a small number of instructions (at least optionally) is desirable for a number of reasons I don't see that as defining RISC. RISC is, I think, about instructions being uniform enough to not complicate the execution pipeline. If you keep the instructions to reading two registers and writing a result to one register, preferably after 1 clock cycle, then I don't think there is any number of different operations available on those 2 operands that would make something be not RISC any more. Some people think it's ok to read 3 input registers -- again, Arm since 1985. And everyone in floating point, since `±A*B±C` is the fundamental and most common operation in floating point algorithms and IEEE 754-2008 mandates that the operation be done without intermediate rounding. There are some manufacturers who have apparently thought "RISC" is a good marketing thing and put the label on things that I don't consider to be RISC. For example Microchip claims 8 bit PIC is RISC. It certainly isn't -- it's a classic accumulator architecture (as are Intel 8051 and 8080 and MOS 6602) with Acc-Mem and Mem-Acc instructions. Calling memory "registers" doesn't change that On the other hand Atmel AVR is clearly RISC. Also TI market the MSP430 as RISC. It's a lovely little minimalist 16 bit ISA very similar to PDP-11 and, like PDP-11, all the 2-operand arithmetic operations can be done memory-to-memory which is a definite RISC no-no. Original M68000 - also PDP-11 like -- has a better claim to being RISC as (like 8086) it at least kept everything except MOV{B,W,L} down to reg-mem. But, no, PIC and MSP430 are not RISC despite their manufacturers saying they are.