3 ms·

It's actually appropriate for it to break with 11, since Windows 11 is the fork in the road where many of us stopped caring to use Windows anymore.

zamadatix 1y ago
And for the folks that prefer to bash XP (Fisher Price UI or whatever): XP 64 was the first (and so far only) version of Windows in the chain to not be reachable by any upgrade path whatsoever (where at least Windows 11 can still be reached by upgrading 64 bit Windows 10 and so on, back to XP 64). So, arguably, it's at least (if not more) at fault than 11 - depending which brings more joy for one to blame. Windows 95 was really the one which made the story interesting (the important bridge between 16->32), so no help to those that preferred NT or other OSs at the time and wanted an excuse to bash it :p.
pjmlp 1y ago
Unfortunately the alternatives aren't much better, Apple is out of my budget for home computers, and I still can't buy Linux system at the local PC store other than Raspberry PIs.
- tliltocatl 1y ago
  > still can't buy Linux system at the local PC store other than Raspberry PIs. More or less every Ryzen motherboard is guaranteed to work (as is Intel, just they aren't bang for bucks)?
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    In which well known European PC store can I buy a desktop or 100% supported laptop with Linux pre-installed? Meaning Worten, FNAC, Public, MediaMarkt, Saturn, Dixons, CoolBlue,... I am no strange to UNIX, having started with Xenix in 1993, going through all major ones, and knowing Linux since Slackware 2.0, but I have better things to do in 2025 with my spare time than installing Linux distros. Hence why I rather stick with VMWare Workstation, WSL, or cloud instances nowadays.
    - tliltocatl 1y ago
      Pre-installed? Like with loads of bloatware from the manufacturer? Anyway, the major distros nowadays aren't Slackware. They work from the box, sans Nvidia (but unless you need CUDA that's just a reason not to go with Nvidia) and maybe Broadcom's WiFi (the firmware is in "non-free" repos because of licensing). An installation wouldn't take more than ten minutes, of which eight minutes is just watching the load bar. Then, of course, if you hate GNOME3 as much as I do it will take a bit more - but preinstalled wouldn't save you here either.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        As your comment points out some things never change regarding hardware support.
    - bigwheels 1y ago
      I haven't been to a computer electronics store since Fry's Electronics shuttered in 2021. RIP good old days. It's pretty straightforward to re-image Linux onto any common x86-64 or arm64 hardware, not sure why one would shy away from this - nowadays it's actually easier than installing Windows.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        I rather not do DevOps nor IT support on my free time, that I rather spend with family and friends.
        tliltocatl 1y ago
        That's why what's microsoft is pulling off is getting through.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        Also why WebOS, ChromeOS and Android are the successful Linux distributions that the general public cares about. As long as hardware with GNU/Linux is something special not available on general stores, or when, only in the form of Raspberry PI kits for kids, adoption will stay as it is.
- badsectoracula 1y ago
  You can install Linux in well supported hardware (AMD really) in less time that it'd take you to write most comments in HN. If you really want to buy something, there is https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ - they've been around for a long time, though personally i never used them since i prefer to build my own desktops.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    That is buying online. I have owned an AMD APU that only had its 3D capabilities and hardware video decoding fully supported on the Windows drivers during a couple of years until reaching parity, OpenGL 3.3 instead of 4.1, and no VAAPI. Thanks for the typical Linux forum answer, some things never change.
    - badsectoracula 1y ago
      > some things never change. Other things however do change. It is pointless to make current decisions on the state of software and drivers from years - let alone decades - ago. Back in the 2000s and early 2010s AMD's OpenGL story on Linux was pathetic, if you really wanted any sort of decent OpenGL on Linux you had to use Nvidia. Things are very different nowadays and i'm saying that as someone who used to buy Nvidia because of their better OpenGL drivers and especially their Linux support.

zamadatix 1y ago

And for the folks that prefer to bash XP (Fisher Price UI or whatever): XP 64 was the first (and so far only) version of Windows in the chain to not be reachable by any upgrade path whatsoever (where at least Windows 11 can still be reached by upgrading 64 bit Windows 10 and so on, back to XP 64). So, arguably, it's at least (if not more) at fault than 11 - depending which brings more joy for one to blame. Windows 95 was really the one which made the story interesting (the important bridge between 16->32), so no help to those that preferred NT or other OSs at the time and wanted an excuse to bash it :p.

pjmlp 1y ago

Unfortunately the alternatives aren't much better, Apple is out of my budget for home computers, and I still can't buy Linux system at the local PC store other than Raspberry PIs.

tliltocatl 1y ago
> still can't buy Linux system at the local PC store other than Raspberry PIs. More or less every Ryzen motherboard is guaranteed to work (as is Intel, just they aren't bang for bucks)?
- pjmlp 1y ago
  In which well known European PC store can I buy a desktop or 100% supported laptop with Linux pre-installed? Meaning Worten, FNAC, Public, MediaMarkt, Saturn, Dixons, CoolBlue,... I am no strange to UNIX, having started with Xenix in 1993, going through all major ones, and knowing Linux since Slackware 2.0, but I have better things to do in 2025 with my spare time than installing Linux distros. Hence why I rather stick with VMWare Workstation, WSL, or cloud instances nowadays.
  - tliltocatl 1y ago
    Pre-installed? Like with loads of bloatware from the manufacturer? Anyway, the major distros nowadays aren't Slackware. They work from the box, sans Nvidia (but unless you need CUDA that's just a reason not to go with Nvidia) and maybe Broadcom's WiFi (the firmware is in "non-free" repos because of licensing). An installation wouldn't take more than ten minutes, of which eight minutes is just watching the load bar. Then, of course, if you hate GNOME3 as much as I do it will take a bit more - but preinstalled wouldn't save you here either.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      As your comment points out some things never change regarding hardware support.
  - bigwheels 1y ago
    I haven't been to a computer electronics store since Fry's Electronics shuttered in 2021. RIP good old days. It's pretty straightforward to re-image Linux onto any common x86-64 or arm64 hardware, not sure why one would shy away from this - nowadays it's actually easier than installing Windows.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      I rather not do DevOps nor IT support on my free time, that I rather spend with family and friends.
      - tliltocatl 1y ago
        That's why what's microsoft is pulling off is getting through.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        Also why WebOS, ChromeOS and Android are the successful Linux distributions that the general public cares about. As long as hardware with GNU/Linux is something special not available on general stores, or when, only in the form of Raspberry PI kits for kids, adoption will stay as it is.
badsectoracula 1y ago
You can install Linux in well supported hardware (AMD really) in less time that it'd take you to write most comments in HN. If you really want to buy something, there is https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ - they've been around for a long time, though personally i never used them since i prefer to build my own desktops.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  That is buying online. I have owned an AMD APU that only had its 3D capabilities and hardware video decoding fully supported on the Windows drivers during a couple of years until reaching parity, OpenGL 3.3 instead of 4.1, and no VAAPI. Thanks for the typical Linux forum answer, some things never change.
  - badsectoracula 1y ago
    > some things never change. Other things however do change. It is pointless to make current decisions on the state of software and drivers from years - let alone decades - ago. Back in the 2000s and early 2010s AMD's OpenGL story on Linux was pathetic, if you really wanted any sort of decent OpenGL on Linux you had to use Nvidia. Things are very different nowadays and i'm saying that as someone who used to buy Nvidia because of their better OpenGL drivers and especially their Linux support.