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From the article I got the impression Singal was some far right loon, but after looking it up.. nope, he is a liberal that said something mildly out of sync wit

From the article I got the impression Singal was some far right loon, but after looking it up.. nope, he is a liberal that said something mildly out of sync with trans activists opinions...

tptacek 1y ago
No good will come of a fulsome litigation of Singal but it's fair to say that he doesn't go out of his way to avoid these controversies. Sort of like Fredrik deBoer, he's one of journalism's answers to the concept of edgelordery. People who vocally wish he was less influential would do well to remember how much juice they've been giving him.
- mustache_kimono 1y ago
  > he doesn't go out of his way to avoid these controversies. Science journalist covering the science of perhaps the most salient social issue of our time? Don't get me wrong -- there are other really important stories which aren't being covered as well as they should be, but Singal's beat would seem to be at least as important as... most anything linked from HN on a daily basis. > People who vocally wish he was less influential would do well to remember how much juice they've been giving him. I totally agree. By turning Singal into a boogeyman he almost certainly isn't, people are only feeding his social and journalistic capital. Singal is just someone who disagrees with you (in that classically liberal 90s American sense). Efforts to cancel or ban him have made some look like they don't have actual arguments to contribute. That's how Singal makes those with opposing views look ridiculous.
  - DaSHacka 1y ago
    > That's how Singal makes those with opposing views look ridiculous. Quite frankly, he didn't have to do anything. They did that allll on their own.
- carynh 1y ago
  > he's one of journalism's answers to the concept of edgelordery either the term "edgelord" means something very different from what it did 10ish years ago or you have a very misinformed understanding about how timid Jesse approaches online conflict. I haven't seen him initiate any form of edgy engagement in forever .. maybe ever.
  - tptacek 1y ago
    I followed him long after he was declared persona non grata, sort of uncomfortably agreeing that he was getting dogpiled unfairly (I don't think I agree with him about much, but at the time, it didn't seem like he was saying anything more than a stddev from the media consensus). I don't follow him anymore, after it became very clear that he's steering right into personal conflicts with people, and reciprocating all the weird grudges. I've also had reason to listen to his podcast within the past year (they did an episode covering our local library system), and feel comfortable with the decision to yuck out of paying attention to him. (Not over the library coverage itself, just over ancillary stuff I heard on the podcast). I'll put it this way: I had reason to tip our local politics Facebook off to the episode he did, and when I did that, I wrote a paragraph long disclaimer about what he's like. Not because I have any animus towards Singal, but because I didn't want anybody to associate me with some of what he's said. So yeah, I'd push back on this. Singal is a lot less interesting a subject (aren't we all exhausted of debating Singal at this point) than whether Bluesky is going to be a viable mainstream competitor to Twitter, and he's interesting to me only in what this drama says about that question.
    - carynh 1y ago
      > Singal is a lot less interesting a subject (aren't we all exhausted of debating Singal at this point) than whether Bluesky is going to be a viable mainstream competitor to Twitter I 100% agree with you on that part. As for the rest, it seems you and I have a vastly different experience with him and his views. Cheers! edit: oh yea, I don't know whether you'd be comfortable sharing it here but I'd be fairly curious about that Jesse 101 you wrote for your facebook group. Not to criticize it or anything just to get a better idea of your POV.
rtpg 1y ago
The guy's whole bit is arguing from some sort of vague sociological perspective against gender affirming care. And pretending that (in the United States of America of all places) teens can just walk up to their doctors super easily and get surgery done somehow. He presents this issue as a sort of parental-rights-ignoring epidemic, but if you dig into the reality of it all there's a hell of a lot of parental consent, a hell of a lot of checks within the medical establishment about whether to do these things, and of course the person themselves being involved. Singal is a fellow traveler to people who defend conversion therapy, which is a thing where _kids are sent to a camp to be trained into a different sexuality_. This is shit that's basically banned in many places in Europe, because many believe that those camps are basically child abuse. So you're looking at a person who has a lot of distrust for the medical establishment, falsely presents the reality of the thing to make it sound like people are walking in for free top surgery the moment they get into middle school[0], and this is stuff that is being cited to add restrictions on other things. There's this deeply personal thing that a very small segment of the population is trying to deal with. There are medical professionals that have some help (including just of the "talking" variety), some degree of acceptance in pockets of society. And this sort of thing means that people can have a little bit of dignity. And the medical establishment is trying to treat people! Meanwhile this guy is using his voice to just spread fear around all of this, misrepresenting even really basic things. And to what goal? Again, parental rights are part of the equation in reality! And we're not talking about a sports thing here. So who is Singal out there fighting for? I kind of don't care what this guy's opinion is on, like, taxes and the role of government in the rest of life. He's going out there writing this kind of stuff so consistently that he's known for it. And I have a very hard time understanding who he is the voice for, except for people who are just against trans people existing in public society. I don't care about him being banned off of bluesky or whatever. I just want people here to have at least some access to medical care (in various forms) if doctors and parents agree. And his stuff is helping to provide ammo to roll this access back at a legislative level. Serious people should know that what he says doesn't hold up on examination. In the same way that people "know" that Trump just says things that sound emotionally right to him in the moment to prove a point. [0]: I'm exagerating here but again, in the USA access to medical treatment is not easy!
- mustache_kimono 1y ago
bad_username 1y ago
I think the article's sole purpose is to pressure Bluesky into enforcing an ideology.

From the article I got the impression Singal was some far right loon, but after looking it up.. nope, he is a liberal that said something mildly out of sync with trans activists opinions...

tptacek 1y ago

No good will come of a fulsome litigation of Singal but it's fair to say that he doesn't go out of his way to avoid these controversies. Sort of like Fredrik deBoer, he's one of journalism's answers to the concept of edgelordery. People who vocally wish he was less influential would do well to remember how much juice they've been giving him.

mustache_kimono 1y ago
> he doesn't go out of his way to avoid these controversies. Science journalist covering the science of perhaps the most salient social issue of our time? Don't get me wrong -- there are other really important stories which aren't being covered as well as they should be, but Singal's beat would seem to be at least as important as... most anything linked from HN on a daily basis. > People who vocally wish he was less influential would do well to remember how much juice they've been giving him. I totally agree. By turning Singal into a boogeyman he almost certainly isn't, people are only feeding his social and journalistic capital. Singal is just someone who disagrees with you (in that classically liberal 90s American sense). Efforts to cancel or ban him have made some look like they don't have actual arguments to contribute. That's how Singal makes those with opposing views look ridiculous.
- DaSHacka 1y ago
  > That's how Singal makes those with opposing views look ridiculous. Quite frankly, he didn't have to do anything. They did that allll on their own.
carynh 1y ago
> he's one of journalism's answers to the concept of edgelordery either the term "edgelord" means something very different from what it did 10ish years ago or you have a very misinformed understanding about how timid Jesse approaches online conflict. I haven't seen him initiate any form of edgy engagement in forever .. maybe ever.
- tptacek 1y ago
  I followed him long after he was declared persona non grata, sort of uncomfortably agreeing that he was getting dogpiled unfairly (I don't think I agree with him about much, but at the time, it didn't seem like he was saying anything more than a stddev from the media consensus). I don't follow him anymore, after it became very clear that he's steering right into personal conflicts with people, and reciprocating all the weird grudges. I've also had reason to listen to his podcast within the past year (they did an episode covering our local library system), and feel comfortable with the decision to yuck out of paying attention to him. (Not over the library coverage itself, just over ancillary stuff I heard on the podcast). I'll put it this way: I had reason to tip our local politics Facebook off to the episode he did, and when I did that, I wrote a paragraph long disclaimer about what he's like. Not because I have any animus towards Singal, but because I didn't want anybody to associate me with some of what he's said. So yeah, I'd push back on this. Singal is a lot less interesting a subject (aren't we all exhausted of debating Singal at this point) than whether Bluesky is going to be a viable mainstream competitor to Twitter, and he's interesting to me only in what this drama says about that question.
  - carynh 1y ago
    > Singal is a lot less interesting a subject (aren't we all exhausted of debating Singal at this point) than whether Bluesky is going to be a viable mainstream competitor to Twitter I 100% agree with you on that part. As for the rest, it seems you and I have a vastly different experience with him and his views. Cheers! edit: oh yea, I don't know whether you'd be comfortable sharing it here but I'd be fairly curious about that Jesse 101 you wrote for your facebook group. Not to criticize it or anything just to get a better idea of your POV.

rtpg 1y ago

The guy's whole bit is arguing from some sort of vague sociological perspective against gender affirming care. And pretending that (in the United States of America of all places) teens can just walk up to their doctors super easily and get surgery done somehow. He presents this issue as a sort of parental-rights-ignoring epidemic, but if you dig into the reality of it all there's a hell of a lot of parental consent, a hell of a lot of checks within the medical establishment about whether to do these things, and of course the person themselves being involved. Singal is a fellow traveler to people who defend conversion therapy, which is a thing where _kids are sent to a camp to be trained into a different sexuality_. This is shit that's basically banned in many places in Europe, because many believe that those camps are basically child abuse. So you're looking at a person who has a lot of distrust for the medical establishment, falsely presents the reality of the thing to make it sound like people are walking in for free top surgery the moment they get into middle school[0], and this is stuff that is being cited to add restrictions on other things. There's this deeply personal thing that a very small segment of the population is trying to deal with. There are medical professionals that have some help (including just of the "talking" variety), some degree of acceptance in pockets of society. And this sort of thing means that people can have a little bit of dignity. And the medical establishment is trying to treat people! Meanwhile this guy is using his voice to just spread fear around all of this, misrepresenting even really basic things. And to what goal? Again, parental rights are part of the equation in reality! And we're not talking about a sports thing here. So who is Singal out there fighting for? I kind of don't care what this guy's opinion is on, like, taxes and the role of government in the rest of life. He's going out there writing this kind of stuff so consistently that he's known for it. And I have a very hard time understanding who he is the voice for, except for people who are just against trans people existing in public society. I don't care about him being banned off of bluesky or whatever. I just want people here to have at least some access to medical care (in various forms) if doctors and parents agree. And his stuff is helping to provide ammo to roll this access back at a legislative level. Serious people should know that what he says doesn't hold up on examination. In the same way that people "know" that Trump just says things that sound emotionally right to him in the moment to prove a point. [0]: I'm exagerating here but again, in the USA access to medical treatment is not easy!

mustache_kimono 1y ago

bad_username 1y ago

I think the article's sole purpose is to pressure Bluesky into enforcing an ideology.