4 ms·

"he didn't technically break any rules so I won't ban him" has been the death of _many_ social spaces good moderation requires discretion and keeping the users

"he didn't technically break any rules so I won't ban him" has been the death of _many_ social spaces good moderation requires discretion and keeping the users happy, not slavish legalism

tptacek 1y ago
That's an argument that proves a lot, given that it kind of implies that a quorum of customers can simply vote other customers off the island.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Palomides 1y ago
  well... yes? does that not happen regularly on many platforms? even on a free service, users have some tiny leverage; they can vote with their feet
  - tptacek 1y ago
    Not on any viable investor-funded ones, nope.
    - Palomides 1y ago
      even billion dollar corporations like cloudflare (with a "free speech absolutist" CEO) absolutely do drop unpopular customers due to user pressure
      - jazzyjackson 1y ago
        If you're talking about moot and kiwifarms that wasn't merely "user pressure" like large customers threatening to walk - it was a harassment campaign hitting up the legal department and cloudflare decided they didn't want to bother dying on that hill
        DaSHacka 1y ago
        > moot Do you mean null? Ironically, 4chan actually still uses Cloudflare to this day, and did through that whole controversy too. I assure you there is way, way worse things posted to /pol/ than there ever was, or will be, to Kiwi Farms.
        jazzyjackson 1y ago
        Right, sorry, Moon not moot. I enjoyed his interview with Nina Paley and Chris Cohn on life after cloudflare: https://heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-107-how-the-internet-lost-its-backbone-with-joshua-moon/ https://heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-107-how-the-internet-...
        DaSHacka 1y ago
        Interesting, thanks for sharing. I have been halfway following the Farm's status for the past couple years from null's telegram/forum posts, I didn't know he spoke about the situation at length anywhere.
greazy 1y ago
This can backfire. eg Twitch moderators. Discretion should be rarely used. For everything else, create a set of rules and stick to them.
spooon 1y ago
Good on Jay Graber that she's sticking to a reasoned set of principles instead of bowing down to the braying mob.
- Palomides 1y ago
  if you call your userbase a braying mob, you're not going to have a userbase for long
  - spooon 1y ago
    It's a small fraction of the userbase that is up in arms about this, who want special exceptions made for their demands.
astrange 1y ago
He /doesn't use the service at all/. I agree that is a way of not breaking its rules.
gitaarik 1y ago
But I guess users also expect that there's freedom of opinions on the platform within the set rules. If users are merely being banned based on their opinion, that doesn't sound like a healthy environment.

"he didn't technically break any rules so I won't ban him" has been the death of _many_ social spaces good moderation requires discretion and keeping the users happy, not slavish legalism

tptacek 1y ago

That's an argument that proves a lot, given that it kind of implies that a quorum of customers can simply vote other customers off the island.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Palomides 1y ago
well... yes? does that not happen regularly on many platforms? even on a free service, users have some tiny leverage; they can vote with their feet
- tptacek 1y ago
  Not on any viable investor-funded ones, nope.
  - Palomides 1y ago
    even billion dollar corporations like cloudflare (with a "free speech absolutist" CEO) absolutely do drop unpopular customers due to user pressure
    - jazzyjackson 1y ago
      If you're talking about moot and kiwifarms that wasn't merely "user pressure" like large customers threatening to walk - it was a harassment campaign hitting up the legal department and cloudflare decided they didn't want to bother dying on that hill
      - DaSHacka 1y ago
        > moot Do you mean null? Ironically, 4chan actually still uses Cloudflare to this day, and did through that whole controversy too. I assure you there is way, way worse things posted to /pol/ than there ever was, or will be, to Kiwi Farms.
        jazzyjackson 1y ago
        Right, sorry, Moon not moot. I enjoyed his interview with Nina Paley and Chris Cohn on life after cloudflare: https://heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-107-how-the-internet-lost-its-backbone-with-joshua-moon/ https://heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-107-how-the-internet-...
        DaSHacka 1y ago
        Interesting, thanks for sharing. I have been halfway following the Farm's status for the past couple years from null's telegram/forum posts, I didn't know he spoke about the situation at length anywhere.

greazy 1y ago

This can backfire. eg Twitch moderators. Discretion should be rarely used. For everything else, create a set of rules and stick to them.

spooon 1y ago

Good on Jay Graber that she's sticking to a reasoned set of principles instead of bowing down to the braying mob.

Palomides 1y ago
if you call your userbase a braying mob, you're not going to have a userbase for long
- spooon 1y ago
  It's a small fraction of the userbase that is up in arms about this, who want special exceptions made for their demands.

astrange 1y ago

He /doesn't use the service at all/. I agree that is a way of not breaking its rules.

gitaarik 1y ago

But I guess users also expect that there's freedom of opinions on the platform within the set rules. If users are merely being banned based on their opinion, that doesn't sound like a healthy environment.