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If you look at the concrete laws, they are less spectacular. For example, the concept of privacy protecting against media coverage is actually weaker for polit

If you look at the concrete laws, they are less spectacular. For example, the concept of privacy protecting against media coverage is actually weaker for politicians (when in official duty) than for ordinary citizens (Allgemeines Persönlichkeitsrecht). And libel only applies to statements of facts. I.e. you can't (easily) be prosecuted for opinions, just for making harmful false claims.

dgfitz 1y ago
“This person is corrupt!” Is that an opinion or a harmful false claim?
- IlikeKitties 1y ago
  Depends, when talking about Jens Spahn it's a Statement of fact.
- IngoBlechschmid 1y ago
  A good friend of mine was recently sentenced to prison for publicly using this kind of phrase during a protest for climate justice. When Germany's equivalent of the Supreme Court, the Bundesverfassungsgericht, learned of this case, the court immediately ordered their release and declared the original verdict void: According to the Bundesverfassungsgericht, (in the specific situation at hand) this phrase is more a value judgment and less a factual claim. Together with a fellow activist, who also served as informal legal counsel, they gave a talk on this case at the 38th Chaos Communication Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5RmTOGucZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5RmTOGucZo
  - constantcrying 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - bildung 1y ago
      The CCC hasn't been only about computers since inception. They were clearly already political in the 80s, just have a look at this zine: https://ds.ccc.de/pdfs/ds024.pdf https://ds.ccc.de/pdfs/ds024.pdf
constantcrying 1y ago
>If you look at the concrete laws, they are less spectacular. And if you look at how these laws are used by politicians they look quite spectacular. >And libel only applies to statements of facts. I.e. you can't (easily) be prosecuted for opinions, just for making harmful false claims. The Wikipedia article and how the law was applied article disagrees. Do not forget that this applies to insults. E.g. calling a politician "dumb" is enough to get sued. These laws create a way for politicians specifically to prosecute people criticizing them. This isn't a hypothetical, it is how the law is actually used.
- 1718627440 1y ago
  Yes and insults can be factual or not.
- hiimkeks 1y ago
  > This isn't a hypothetical, it is how the law is actually used. You make it sound like it happens all the time and everyone is used to it. I know of once case (Pimmel-Andy), and that led to a shitstorm, including part of the police operation being declared unlawful after the fact. https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/landgericht-hamburg-andy-grote-pimmelgate-durchsuchung-rechtswidrig-twitter https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/landgericht-hamburg-a...

dgfitz 1y ago

“This person is corrupt!” Is that an opinion or a harmful false claim?

IlikeKitties 1y ago
Depends, when talking about Jens Spahn it's a Statement of fact.
IngoBlechschmid 1y ago
A good friend of mine was recently sentenced to prison for publicly using this kind of phrase during a protest for climate justice. When Germany's equivalent of the Supreme Court, the Bundesverfassungsgericht, learned of this case, the court immediately ordered their release and declared the original verdict void: According to the Bundesverfassungsgericht, (in the specific situation at hand) this phrase is more a value judgment and less a factual claim. Together with a fellow activist, who also served as informal legal counsel, they gave a talk on this case at the 38th Chaos Communication Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5RmTOGucZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5RmTOGucZo
- constantcrying 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bildung 1y ago
    The CCC hasn't been only about computers since inception. They were clearly already political in the 80s, just have a look at this zine: https://ds.ccc.de/pdfs/ds024.pdf https://ds.ccc.de/pdfs/ds024.pdf

constantcrying 1y ago

>If you look at the concrete laws, they are less spectacular. And if you look at how these laws are used by politicians they look quite spectacular. >And libel only applies to statements of facts. I.e. you can't (easily) be prosecuted for opinions, just for making harmful false claims. The Wikipedia article and how the law was applied article disagrees. Do not forget that this applies to insults. E.g. calling a politician "dumb" is enough to get sued. These laws create a way for politicians specifically to prosecute people criticizing them. This isn't a hypothetical, it is how the law is actually used.

1718627440 1y ago
Yes and insults can be factual or not.
hiimkeks 1y ago
> This isn't a hypothetical, it is how the law is actually used. You make it sound like it happens all the time and everyone is used to it. I know of once case (Pimmel-Andy), and that led to a shitstorm, including part of the police operation being declared unlawful after the fact. https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/landgericht-hamburg-andy-grote-pimmelgate-durchsuchung-rechtswidrig-twitter https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/landgericht-hamburg-a...