4 ms·

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in som

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime. Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, and even intentionally over staying a tourist visa does not warrant the loss of humanity, due process, basic rights, dignity, and humanity

cosmicgadget 1y ago
Agreed.
k33n 1y ago
Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait. This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support actual open borders. We can't feed, house or provide medical care to the entire world. That is why there is a process. Were you this vocal when Obama deported millions, or is this just more "I hate Trump" hot air?
- nxobject 1y ago
  > Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. > This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. I think you're misreading the OP and/or ignoring recent news. OP's contention is that the way it's being executed deserves an emotional response -- everything from ignoring judges to send people to El Salvadoran mega-prisons, to roaming streets in masks with creditable allegations about racial profiling. [0] I'd like to know more about your claim about feeding, housing, and providing care to the whole world. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/08/us/politics/supreme-court-immigration-racial-profiling.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/08/us/politics/supreme-court...
- thephyber 1y ago
  Obama’s deportation numbers were juiced compared to post-2015 numbers because there was a change in the definition of that term. Obama’s deportations were mostly border patrol apprehending and pushing people back across the border, not ICE being super efficient at rounding up people in the interior of the country. A good primer on immigration enforcement before and during the Obama admin: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deporta...
- crooked-v 1y ago
  > An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Okay, but dragging citizens out of their homes without a warrant (https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-raid-chicago-apartment https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-raid-chicago-apartment) sure is.
- intermerda 1y ago
  > Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. Obama prioritized deportation of people convicted of serious crimes and recent arrivals after they got their day in court. He did not call Mexicans rapists. The admin did not arrest US citizens. Being arrested by the feds even if you did not break the law is a much worse ordeal. > Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait. The line for legal citizenship does not move faster if you deport more people. > This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support actual open borders. We can't feed, house or provide medical care to the entire world. That is why there is a process. When masked men come out of a van and kidnap you off the streets in broad daylight, tell me if it's an emotional issue or not. > Were you this vocal when Obama deported millions, or is this just more "I hate Trump" hot air? Were you always a fascist sympathizer or did Trump stoke those feelings in you?
  - k33n 1y ago
    Lmao
coredog64 1y ago
"due process" means "This is the process the government must follow" and is not shorthand for "You are allowed to appeal to the USSC". I think most people would be surprised how little process is owed to someone who is not legally present in the United States and how few opportunities there are for appeal.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  Little... but not none. Follow the law. I'm not asking for more process than the law specifies, but ICE has to actually follow the law. If they won't, then they no longer have legal authority to do what they're doing, and they're just another gang.
- seadan83 1y ago
  The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" The US constitution applies to all persons (people) inside of the USA regardless of citizenship. The amendment says PERSON, not CITIZEN. Therefore it should not matter at all how that person got here, they are due the same rights and process as __anyone__ else on American soil. That is the 14th amendment of the constitution, further backed by multiple ultra-important and historical supreme court precedents that rights apply to ALL 'people' and not just 'citizens'.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" More relevant to ICE, is the 5th Amendment, which prohibits the federal government from doing that.
  - 15155 1y ago
    Being deported isn't legally deprivation of "life, liberty, or property." Deportation is not a punishment and is entirely avoidable in 99% of cases: don't overstay or enter illegally.
    - 1y ago
yibg 1y ago
What's moral vs what's legal aren't always the same thing. Especially in times like this, they get very quickly divergent. To the parent poster's point, the obligation of the citizen in a democracy (at least in theory) is to try to align those.

cosmicgadget 1y ago

Agreed.

k33n 1y ago

Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait. This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support actual open borders. We can't feed, house or provide medical care to the entire world. That is why there is a process. Were you this vocal when Obama deported millions, or is this just more "I hate Trump" hot air?

nxobject 1y ago
> Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. > This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. I think you're misreading the OP and/or ignoring recent news. OP's contention is that the way it's being executed deserves an emotional response -- everything from ignoring judges to send people to El Salvadoran mega-prisons, to roaming streets in masks with creditable allegations about racial profiling. [0] I'd like to know more about your claim about feeding, housing, and providing care to the whole world. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/08/us/politics/supreme-court-immigration-racial-profiling.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/08/us/politics/supreme-court...
thephyber 1y ago
Obama’s deportation numbers were juiced compared to post-2015 numbers because there was a change in the definition of that term. Obama’s deportations were mostly border patrol apprehending and pushing people back across the border, not ICE being super efficient at rounding up people in the interior of the country. A good primer on immigration enforcement before and during the Obama admin: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deporta...
crooked-v 1y ago
> An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Okay, but dragging citizens out of their homes without a warrant (https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-raid-chicago-apartment https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-raid-chicago-apartment) sure is.
intermerda 1y ago
> Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. Obama prioritized deportation of people convicted of serious crimes and recent arrivals after they got their day in court. He did not call Mexicans rapists. The admin did not arrest US citizens. Being arrested by the feds even if you did not break the law is a much worse ordeal. > Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait. The line for legal citizenship does not move faster if you deport more people. > This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support actual open borders. We can't feed, house or provide medical care to the entire world. That is why there is a process. When masked men come out of a van and kidnap you off the streets in broad daylight, tell me if it's an emotional issue or not. > Were you this vocal when Obama deported millions, or is this just more "I hate Trump" hot air? Were you always a fascist sympathizer or did Trump stoke those feelings in you?
- k33n 1y ago
  Lmao

coredog64 1y ago

"due process" means "This is the process the government must follow" and is not shorthand for "You are allowed to appeal to the USSC". I think most people would be surprised how little process is owed to someone who is not legally present in the United States and how few opportunities there are for appeal.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
Little... but not none. Follow the law. I'm not asking for more process than the law specifies, but ICE has to actually follow the law. If they won't, then they no longer have legal authority to do what they're doing, and they're just another gang.
seadan83 1y ago
The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" The US constitution applies to all persons (people) inside of the USA regardless of citizenship. The amendment says PERSON, not CITIZEN. Therefore it should not matter at all how that person got here, they are due the same rights and process as __anyone__ else on American soil. That is the 14th amendment of the constitution, further backed by multiple ultra-important and historical supreme court precedents that rights apply to ALL 'people' and not just 'citizens'.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" More relevant to ICE, is the 5th Amendment, which prohibits the federal government from doing that.
- 15155 1y ago
  Being deported isn't legally deprivation of "life, liberty, or property." Deportation is not a punishment and is entirely avoidable in 99% of cases: don't overstay or enter illegally.
  - 1y ago

yibg 1y ago

What's moral vs what's legal aren't always the same thing. Especially in times like this, they get very quickly divergent. To the parent poster's point, the obligation of the citizen in a democracy (at least in theory) is to try to align those.