4 ms·

I mean slavery was legal, Jim Crow was legal... A lot of things are legal and still wrong based on our core principles as a country. Its our duty to oppose the

I mean slavery was legal, Jim Crow was legal... A lot of things are legal and still wrong based on our core principles as a country. Its our duty to oppose them.

cosmicgadget 1y ago
So call what they're doing 'wrong' not 'illegal'. The remedies for those two things are very different.
- softwaredoug 1y ago
  Well also a lot of what they're doing to enforce laws without warrants, arresting citizens without cause, lack of due process, etc is illegal. But a lot of this won't change without "active, provocative, non-violent" resistance as Gandhi would say.
  - coredog64 1y ago
    Out of curiosity, what makes "arresting citizens" illegal? If I'm in a crowd in the presence of a number of other law breakers, why would I think that I couldn't ever be temporarily detained? I mean, yes, it shouldn't be indefinite and there shouldn't be a high bar to clear to prove actual innocence, but we have process for this. I can be arrested without much provocation at all. I then have to be charged, I have the opportunity to enter a plea, get bail, and then I get a trial. All of that can (and does) happen to people who are legitimately innocent.
    - softwaredoug 1y ago
      I should have said "without cause" (now edited). Brown folks are detained randomly because they don't have their papers on them and "look Mexican".
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - hitarpetar 1y ago
      due process
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      > Out of curiosity, what makes "arresting citizens" illegal? Without probable cause? The Fourth Amendment. > shouldn't be a high bar to clear to prove actual innocence I see that you are comfortable with a presumption of guilt so long as the burden of proof of actual innocence isn’t too rigorous, but that’s exactly backwards.
k33n 1y ago
[flagged]
- softwaredoug 1y ago
  Well it might be emotional if you're one of these people about to be sent to South Sudan It's either right or wrong for ICE to run a dragnet through a city, cuffing everyone, checking their papers, as they hope to find someone undocumented. Either human beings have rights and deserve due process, or they don't. People are reduced to the point of keeping airtags on them so loved ones and their lawyers can find them because the administration wants to hide them away.
  - k33n 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - fzeroracer 1y ago
      > That's not happening Yes it is [1]. [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-immigration-raid-on-chicago-apartment-building-leaves-residents-reeling-i-feel-defeated https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...
    - softwaredoug 1y ago
      > Really don't understand the hyper-emotional hyperbole around this topic. If you can’t understand the emotion of being sent to a random country and being separated from your family, I can’t help you.
    - yibg 1y ago
      I'm not trying to be combative here; genuinely would like to see things from "the other side" here and have a rational discussion. Using some specifics, I see the following as wrong: 1. Doing mass detentions and checking papers. Of course not literally through the entirety of a city, but do you agree this happens in mass at say home depot parking lots, construction sites etc, where ICE doesn't know who exactly is here illegally, so they detain everyone and check. This vs having a specific individual in mind and going to arrest that person. 2. Sending people to countries they have no ties to. CECOT for instance, where they're imprisoned indefinitely without a specific charge. Do you agree these have happened? If so do you think they're ok?

I mean slavery was legal, Jim Crow was legal... A lot of things are legal and still wrong based on our core principles as a country. Its our duty to oppose them.

cosmicgadget 1y ago

So call what they're doing 'wrong' not 'illegal'. The remedies for those two things are very different.

softwaredoug 1y ago
Well also a lot of what they're doing to enforce laws without warrants, arresting citizens without cause, lack of due process, etc is illegal. But a lot of this won't change without "active, provocative, non-violent" resistance as Gandhi would say.
- coredog64 1y ago
  Out of curiosity, what makes "arresting citizens" illegal? If I'm in a crowd in the presence of a number of other law breakers, why would I think that I couldn't ever be temporarily detained? I mean, yes, it shouldn't be indefinite and there shouldn't be a high bar to clear to prove actual innocence, but we have process for this. I can be arrested without much provocation at all. I then have to be charged, I have the opportunity to enter a plea, get bail, and then I get a trial. All of that can (and does) happen to people who are legitimately innocent.
  - softwaredoug 1y ago
    I should have said "without cause" (now edited). Brown folks are detained randomly because they don't have their papers on them and "look Mexican".
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - hitarpetar 1y ago
    due process
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > Out of curiosity, what makes "arresting citizens" illegal? Without probable cause? The Fourth Amendment. > shouldn't be a high bar to clear to prove actual innocence I see that you are comfortable with a presumption of guilt so long as the burden of proof of actual innocence isn’t too rigorous, but that’s exactly backwards.

k33n 1y ago

[flagged]

softwaredoug 1y ago
Well it might be emotional if you're one of these people about to be sent to South Sudan It's either right or wrong for ICE to run a dragnet through a city, cuffing everyone, checking their papers, as they hope to find someone undocumented. Either human beings have rights and deserve due process, or they don't. People are reduced to the point of keeping airtags on them so loved ones and their lawyers can find them because the administration wants to hide them away.
- k33n 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - fzeroracer 1y ago
    > That's not happening Yes it is [1]. [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-immigration-raid-on-chicago-apartment-building-leaves-residents-reeling-i-feel-defeated https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...
  - softwaredoug 1y ago
    > Really don't understand the hyper-emotional hyperbole around this topic. If you can’t understand the emotion of being sent to a random country and being separated from your family, I can’t help you.
  - yibg 1y ago
    I'm not trying to be combative here; genuinely would like to see things from "the other side" here and have a rational discussion. Using some specifics, I see the following as wrong: 1. Doing mass detentions and checking papers. Of course not literally through the entirety of a city, but do you agree this happens in mass at say home depot parking lots, construction sites etc, where ICE doesn't know who exactly is here illegally, so they detain everyone and check. This vs having a specific individual in mind and going to arrest that person. 2. Sending people to countries they have no ties to. CECOT for instance, where they're imprisoned indefinitely without a specific charge. Do you agree these have happened? If so do you think they're ok?