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The only large scale energy storage system im aware of that is also cost effective is pumped hydro. However pumped hydro is shall we say extremely environmenta
by buckle8017 1y ago
The only large scale energy storage system im aware of that is also cost effective is pumped hydro.
However pumped hydro is shall we say extremely environmentally bad.
Like casually remove a mountain bad
- hvb2 1y agoNorway disagrees, it depends on your environment
- mikestorrent 1y agoI suppose it depends where you're doing it. Makes most sense to do these things where natural formations do 99% of the construction and you just build a dam. Honestly, we probably need to do a lot more damming to keep more fresh water in - we lose so much of it to the ocean where it becomes useless salt trash...
- buckle8017 1y agoVirtually all the practical and politically acceptable locations for dams already have one. At least in western countries. There's lots of potential in developing countries.
- pfdietz 1y agoWhat's the environmental downside of off-river pumped hydro?
- buckle8017 1y agoTo scale it up requires building very large impoundments of water, typically on the top of a mountain by removing the top of the mountain. Think artificial volcano shape with a tube in the middle.
- pfdietz 1y agoThe reservoirs need not be that large, at least for diurnal storage. Look at the illustration for this 1000 MW, 8 hour project: https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/ https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/
- buckle8017 1y agoFor solar the storage really need to be seasonal. Think 100 million times the size of that project. 24/8 * 100days * 330000Mw
- pfdietz 1y agoPumped hydro is not appropriate for seasonal storage. It's not an environmental issue, it's a capital cost issue. The capex per kWh of storage capacity is two orders of magnitude too high. See the comparison tables at https://www.orcasciences.com/articles/standard-thermal-copy https://www.orcasciences.com/articles/standard-thermal-copy
- buckle8017 1y agoWell yes, but nothing is appropriate. That's why we still burn natural gas all winter instead of storing solar.
- DamonHD 1y agoRenewables-hydrolysed hydrogen stored in the caverns where we currently store methane is quite likely a big part of the interseasonal energy solution.
- lambdaone 1y agoOr indeed methane generated via the Sabatier reaction using hydrogen generated from renewables - higher energy density, easier to handle, store and distribute. And it can be fed to existing gas peaker plants, a known technology.