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My wife thought I was being crazy for not connecting our Roomba to wifi when we bought it. I feel quite vindicated.

codetiger 1y ago
Lesson learnt: Best thing to do for a smart device is not connect them to internet from day one. Though it beats the purpose to some extend, we don’t have an option of buying dump devices anymore.
- theamk 1y ago
  Well, one of the big upside of the modern smart vacuums is you can see the map it built, set up rooms or zones, do a virtual cleaning, etc... This (1) definitely requires some connectivity, and (2) has to go via central server if the phone is not on same subnet. Sadly, because of (2), most (all?) companies don't bother with local connectivity at all. Much easier to debug one codepath (via remote server) rather than two (remote server and direct connection). So yeah, if you are worried about device being remote controlled by its manufacturer, don't buy devices which say "Can be remote controlled" right on the box. But of course then you are back to ancient tech, setting physical virtual wall devices or bounding the clean area with overturned chairs.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    what exactly is a virtual cleaning? i don't think it would be received well if I said I virtually cleaned something when asked
    - theamk 1y ago
      :) virtual area cleaning, I've missed a word. This is when you only want to clean only left half of the room, for example. In the old robotics vacuums, your choices were either enough physical "virtual wall" units (those little stubby boxes you place on the floor) or physically fencing it, with overturned chairs or boxes or something. With the smart vacuums, you get the nifty map and you can draw the lines/boxes around the area you want cleaned. Very convenient, but naturally requires some sort of device with a screen (to show map) and position input (to draw the boundaries), like a phone.
  - thfuran 1y ago
    >This (1) definitely requires some connectivity, and (2) has to go via central server if the phone is not on same subnet Why couldn't that just be over Bluetooth?
    - theamk 1y ago
      They could, but it'd still be two codepaths to debug and test - via central server and via bluetooth. So the difference would be even greater, with the benefits unclear - the amount of people who genuinely care about fully offline vacuum is pretty low.
      - thfuran 1y ago
        That’s only two code paths if it also uses WiFi.
jkestner 1y ago
That was my one condition when an air fryer entered the house. No connecting it. When they’re putting WiFi on the cheapest models you know it’s a profit center in spite of you not paying for it.
conductr 1y ago
I’ve been doing this a long while, but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge. I recently moved into a new home and decided to take the opportunity to replace everything; it’s been surprising how many things are just coming to life. TVs, vacuums, kitchen appliances, etc. Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. It’s quite ridiculous the world we’re creating for ourselves.
- cptskippy 1y ago
  > Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. What brand?
  - conductr 1y ago
    Samsung
- mcv 1y ago
  I'm amazed this is so common. I don't think any of my household appliances require wifi access. Our PC, laptops, phones, tablets and printer do, of course. I do occasionally check which devices are connected to my wifi, and try to keep track of what's what, but there are always a few mysterious devices I don't recognise, so I block those just to see what stops working.
- baobun 1y ago
  > more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge Do you have any specific examples of a product doing this?
  - conductr 1y ago
    Yeah - day -1 in new house, get internet. ATT modem, tech has me scan a QR code to login to this WiFi via my iPhone. (I have a mesh network but hadn’t moved belongings, this was just making sure service was working.) Couple days later, we had moved belongings and setup an old dumb TV for my kid. I was a bit surprised when then Apple TV had the WiFi credentials but I was busy moving and just shrugged it off. Couple days later, I replaced the old dumb TV with a new Samsung. It had connectivity too, without doing anything specific. This isn’t my first smart TV but I never give any TV my WiFi and instead always use the Apple TV devices. So was a little more shocked on this one but thought I’ll figure it out when I setup my mesh. Over the next few days, the JennAir appliances showed signs of connectivity. I wasn’t sure how. Hadn’t intended on giving them any Internet access. Don’t really care about having a smart oven. About 2 weeks later, I get around to setting up the mesh. Start going device by device and having it forget the ATT routers Wi-Fi. None of the devices know my mesh info, so set them up individually. I need to just disable the ATT routers Wi-Fi network, haven’t yet. I’m not really a networking guru. I just never had this happen before. I think I either accidentally allowed my phone to share the information or it’s possible my wife did. I had never used QR to login, so maybe that exposed something.
heresie-dabord 1y ago
> My wife thought I was being crazy The real madness is to think that data harvesting is not happening.

Lesson learnt: Best thing to do for a smart device is not connect them to internet from day one. Though it beats the purpose to some extend, we don’t have an option of buying dump devices anymore.

theamk 1y ago
Well, one of the big upside of the modern smart vacuums is you can see the map it built, set up rooms or zones, do a virtual cleaning, etc... This (1) definitely requires some connectivity, and (2) has to go via central server if the phone is not on same subnet. Sadly, because of (2), most (all?) companies don't bother with local connectivity at all. Much easier to debug one codepath (via remote server) rather than two (remote server and direct connection). So yeah, if you are worried about device being remote controlled by its manufacturer, don't buy devices which say "Can be remote controlled" right on the box. But of course then you are back to ancient tech, setting physical virtual wall devices or bounding the clean area with overturned chairs.
- dylan604 1y ago
  what exactly is a virtual cleaning? i don't think it would be received well if I said I virtually cleaned something when asked
  - theamk 1y ago
    :) virtual area cleaning, I've missed a word. This is when you only want to clean only left half of the room, for example. In the old robotics vacuums, your choices were either enough physical "virtual wall" units (those little stubby boxes you place on the floor) or physically fencing it, with overturned chairs or boxes or something. With the smart vacuums, you get the nifty map and you can draw the lines/boxes around the area you want cleaned. Very convenient, but naturally requires some sort of device with a screen (to show map) and position input (to draw the boundaries), like a phone.
- thfuran 1y ago
  >This (1) definitely requires some connectivity, and (2) has to go via central server if the phone is not on same subnet Why couldn't that just be over Bluetooth?
  - theamk 1y ago
    They could, but it'd still be two codepaths to debug and test - via central server and via bluetooth. So the difference would be even greater, with the benefits unclear - the amount of people who genuinely care about fully offline vacuum is pretty low.
    - thfuran 1y ago
      That’s only two code paths if it also uses WiFi.

jkestner 1y ago

That was my one condition when an air fryer entered the house. No connecting it. When they’re putting WiFi on the cheapest models you know it’s a profit center in spite of you not paying for it.

conductr 1y ago

I’ve been doing this a long while, but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge. I recently moved into a new home and decided to take the opportunity to replace everything; it’s been surprising how many things are just coming to life. TVs, vacuums, kitchen appliances, etc. Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. It’s quite ridiculous the world we’re creating for ourselves.

cptskippy 1y ago
> Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. What brand?
- conductr 1y ago
  Samsung
mcv 1y ago
I'm amazed this is so common. I don't think any of my household appliances require wifi access. Our PC, laptops, phones, tablets and printer do, of course. I do occasionally check which devices are connected to my wifi, and try to keep track of what's what, but there are always a few mysterious devices I don't recognise, so I block those just to see what stops working.
baobun 1y ago
> more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge Do you have any specific examples of a product doing this?
- conductr 1y ago
  Yeah - day -1 in new house, get internet. ATT modem, tech has me scan a QR code to login to this WiFi via my iPhone. (I have a mesh network but hadn’t moved belongings, this was just making sure service was working.) Couple days later, we had moved belongings and setup an old dumb TV for my kid. I was a bit surprised when then Apple TV had the WiFi credentials but I was busy moving and just shrugged it off. Couple days later, I replaced the old dumb TV with a new Samsung. It had connectivity too, without doing anything specific. This isn’t my first smart TV but I never give any TV my WiFi and instead always use the Apple TV devices. So was a little more shocked on this one but thought I’ll figure it out when I setup my mesh. Over the next few days, the JennAir appliances showed signs of connectivity. I wasn’t sure how. Hadn’t intended on giving them any Internet access. Don’t really care about having a smart oven. About 2 weeks later, I get around to setting up the mesh. Start going device by device and having it forget the ATT routers Wi-Fi. None of the devices know my mesh info, so set them up individually. I need to just disable the ATT routers Wi-Fi network, haven’t yet. I’m not really a networking guru. I just never had this happen before. I think I either accidentally allowed my phone to share the information or it’s possible my wife did. I had never used QR to login, so maybe that exposed something.

heresie-dabord 1y ago

> My wife thought I was being crazy The real madness is to think that data harvesting is not happening.