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Do you consider yourself one of those people for those " the negative space in a conversation is just words in a different form"? Where is that take even comin

Do you consider yourself one of those people for those " the negative space in a conversation is just words in a different form"? Where is that take even coming from? Communication styles are very cultural. Japanese is very subtext-heavy while German is very direct. Are Japanese people more intelligent than German people? Furthermore it depends on how your brain is wired. Autistic people prefer direct communication while allistic (that means non-autistic) people rely more on context. Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. People that read crap into stuff that was never said grind my gears so much. It creates so much unnecessary drama. The claim that one form of communication is same sign of being a "high performer" is completely insane.

austin-cheney 1y ago
> Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. When your social intelligence is high enough you realize everybody is always direct because communication is multidimensional. Honest only occurs when the words, vocalization, and body language are all in unison. Even then honesty only matters so much if the substance of content is inaccurate or invalid. Since you brought up autism, most people attempt to mask their emotions in times of discomfort. Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. As a counter example watch North Korea ambassadors speak at the UN. They are emotionless in their answers and its extremely unnatural. They do that intentionally, because no answer is ultimately safe and the greatest threat to their security comes from defiance to their own nation. As to your last statement high performance generally describes some utility, like a test score or job skill. Strong communication skills are generally described as an aptitude as opposed to a utility.
- cardanome 1y ago
  > Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. Masking is autistic people adjusting their communication style so they are more acceptable to allistic people while neglecting their own needs. For example many autistic people show emotions differently. They can default to a flatter tone of voice or show less microexpressions in the face i.e a flatter affect. (Just to be clear, it does not mean they have less emotions. Just because someone expresses emotions differently does not mean they have more or less. Again, they could be for example extremely happy but you would read them as withdrawn and disinterested.) Much of autistic masking can be micromanaging these things. Tone of voice, face expressions, body language. ,And here comes the kicker: High-Masking autistic people are read as MORE honest and authentic by allistic people. Yes more honest no less. Because they show behavior that is you would say is more "in unison" from the point of view of an allistic person. It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. There are studies that show they are worse or close to random chance. Flipping a coin is as reliable as "listening to your gut". People that think they are good at communication are the worst because they don't realize how full of shit they are. You can't know how another person feels, they can only tell you. I guess we are back to dunning kruger. Oh, the irony.
  - austin-cheney 1y ago
    I have an autistic child. I know exactly what it means. I understand the motivation to appear somehow different than they are, but nonetheless it is a form of active ritual deception that becomes habit. It does not matter how well intended any given deception may be the audience still sees it as a lie. > It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. That is another Dunning-Kruger moment. The only way to be excellent at detecting liars is to be good at convincing liars to expose their own deception either through a confession or through conflicting testimony, and some people are really good at that. Perceptions without evidence are just bias. > People that think they are good at communication Again, self perception does not matter. What matters is the result and this is measurable, as proven by Paul Ekman.
    - cardanome 1y ago
      > Paul Ekman Your knowledge of psychology seems to be outdated by... several decades. I recommend reading "How Emotions Are Made" by Lisa Feldman Barret. If you don't recognize the name Lisa Feldman Barret, please google her. She is very acclaimed in the scientific world. I also highly recommend watching anything by Ember Green, especially this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnd74yyf4nQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnd74yyf4nQ Realistically, I know what I am writing is not going to change your mind. It might cause you to get defensive if anything else. But the fact that you have an autistic child and are operating on very outdated scientific ideas make me wish I could somehow. I mean it is not surprising. Those ideas by Paul Ekman are still extremely popular. There are many fraudsters that use them to this day to get government founding and the like. So note that I am not calling you a bad person for falling for this. I am just saying you could be a damn good parent if you updated your views with a bit of more modern psychology.
      - austin-cheney 1y ago
        Your first comment was entirely self focused. Your second comment was exclusively about autism and masking success. Your third comment was about attacking a straw man, Paul Ekman. That is a pattern I have seen before. Nothing you wrote is incorrect, but there is a familiar pattern to it.
JohnBooty 1y ago
I'm pretty... neurodivergence-aware as well. I favor kind but literal communication if we are trying to achieve some kind of goal. Still, there are a lot of things that can go unsaid when people have a shared, high, expertise level. For example, if I'm onboarding a junior engineer, I'm going to have to literally explain a lot of things. From basic compsci concepts to setting up a text editor and local development environment to getting them up to speed on the language we use. These are things that largely would not need to be communicated to a more senior developer.

austin-cheney 1y ago

> Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. When your social intelligence is high enough you realize everybody is always direct because communication is multidimensional. Honest only occurs when the words, vocalization, and body language are all in unison. Even then honesty only matters so much if the substance of content is inaccurate or invalid. Since you brought up autism, most people attempt to mask their emotions in times of discomfort. Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. As a counter example watch North Korea ambassadors speak at the UN. They are emotionless in their answers and its extremely unnatural. They do that intentionally, because no answer is ultimately safe and the greatest threat to their security comes from defiance to their own nation. As to your last statement high performance generally describes some utility, like a test score or job skill. Strong communication skills are generally described as an aptitude as opposed to a utility.

cardanome 1y ago
> Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. Masking is autistic people adjusting their communication style so they are more acceptable to allistic people while neglecting their own needs. For example many autistic people show emotions differently. They can default to a flatter tone of voice or show less microexpressions in the face i.e a flatter affect. (Just to be clear, it does not mean they have less emotions. Just because someone expresses emotions differently does not mean they have more or less. Again, they could be for example extremely happy but you would read them as withdrawn and disinterested.) Much of autistic masking can be micromanaging these things. Tone of voice, face expressions, body language. ,And here comes the kicker: High-Masking autistic people are read as MORE honest and authentic by allistic people. Yes more honest no less. Because they show behavior that is you would say is more "in unison" from the point of view of an allistic person. It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. There are studies that show they are worse or close to random chance. Flipping a coin is as reliable as "listening to your gut". People that think they are good at communication are the worst because they don't realize how full of shit they are. You can't know how another person feels, they can only tell you. I guess we are back to dunning kruger. Oh, the irony.
- austin-cheney 1y ago
  I have an autistic child. I know exactly what it means. I understand the motivation to appear somehow different than they are, but nonetheless it is a form of active ritual deception that becomes habit. It does not matter how well intended any given deception may be the audience still sees it as a lie. > It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. That is another Dunning-Kruger moment. The only way to be excellent at detecting liars is to be good at convincing liars to expose their own deception either through a confession or through conflicting testimony, and some people are really good at that. Perceptions without evidence are just bias. > People that think they are good at communication Again, self perception does not matter. What matters is the result and this is measurable, as proven by Paul Ekman.
  - cardanome 1y ago
    > Paul Ekman Your knowledge of psychology seems to be outdated by... several decades. I recommend reading "How Emotions Are Made" by Lisa Feldman Barret. If you don't recognize the name Lisa Feldman Barret, please google her. She is very acclaimed in the scientific world. I also highly recommend watching anything by Ember Green, especially this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnd74yyf4nQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnd74yyf4nQ Realistically, I know what I am writing is not going to change your mind. It might cause you to get defensive if anything else. But the fact that you have an autistic child and are operating on very outdated scientific ideas make me wish I could somehow. I mean it is not surprising. Those ideas by Paul Ekman are still extremely popular. There are many fraudsters that use them to this day to get government founding and the like. So note that I am not calling you a bad person for falling for this. I am just saying you could be a damn good parent if you updated your views with a bit of more modern psychology.
    - austin-cheney 1y ago
      Your first comment was entirely self focused. Your second comment was exclusively about autism and masking success. Your third comment was about attacking a straw man, Paul Ekman. That is a pattern I have seen before. Nothing you wrote is incorrect, but there is a familiar pattern to it.

JohnBooty 1y ago

I'm pretty... neurodivergence-aware as well. I favor kind but literal communication if we are trying to achieve some kind of goal. Still, there are a lot of things that can go unsaid when people have a shared, high, expertise level. For example, if I'm onboarding a junior engineer, I'm going to have to literally explain a lot of things. From basic compsci concepts to setting up a text editor and local development environment to getting them up to speed on the language we use. These are things that largely would not need to be communicated to a more senior developer.