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This talk about high performers and low performers needing focused environments to perform gets me thinking about the scenario of putting them together. I know

This talk about high performers and low performers needing focused environments to perform gets me thinking about the scenario of putting them together. I know this is not what the article is suggesting, but the thought is still there. This reminds me of conversations between the two ends of the Dunning-Kruger spectrum. In DK low performing people tend to vastly over-estimate their capabilities because their frame of reference is exceedingly narrow. High performers tend to under estimate their capabilities because in their vast experience they have forgotten a great many things that are either unnecessary or things that have become like muscle memory. The conversations are interesting because the high performers tend to be more humble, more confident, and less arrogant while the low performers tend to be the opposite. That is extremely interesting because of what is not said in the conversation. For the low performers everything tends to be literal to the spoken word and everything else becomes an assumption localized to their personal perspective. For the high performers the negative space in a conversation is just words in a different form that the low performers actively broadcast in complete ignorance. This remains true for both children and adults.

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incognito124 1y ago
While interesting in itself, I don't see how both groups would benefit from such an arrangement
cardanome 1y ago
Do you consider yourself one of those people for those " the negative space in a conversation is just words in a different form"? Where is that take even coming from? Communication styles are very cultural. Japanese is very subtext-heavy while German is very direct. Are Japanese people more intelligent than German people? Furthermore it depends on how your brain is wired. Autistic people prefer direct communication while allistic (that means non-autistic) people rely more on context. Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. People that read crap into stuff that was never said grind my gears so much. It creates so much unnecessary drama. The claim that one form of communication is same sign of being a "high performer" is completely insane.
- austin-cheney 1y ago
  > Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. When your social intelligence is high enough you realize everybody is always direct because communication is multidimensional. Honest only occurs when the words, vocalization, and body language are all in unison. Even then honesty only matters so much if the substance of content is inaccurate or invalid. Since you brought up autism, most people attempt to mask their emotions in times of discomfort. Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. As a counter example watch North Korea ambassadors speak at the UN. They are emotionless in their answers and its extremely unnatural. They do that intentionally, because no answer is ultimately safe and the greatest threat to their security comes from defiance to their own nation. As to your last statement high performance generally describes some utility, like a test score or job skill. Strong communication skills are generally described as an aptitude as opposed to a utility.
  - cardanome 1y ago
    > Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. Masking is autistic people adjusting their communication style so they are more acceptable to allistic people while neglecting their own needs. For example many autistic people show emotions differently. They can default to a flatter tone of voice or show less microexpressions in the face i.e a flatter affect. (Just to be clear, it does not mean they have less emotions. Just because someone expresses emotions differently does not mean they have more or less. Again, they could be for example extremely happy but you would read them as withdrawn and disinterested.) Much of autistic masking can be micromanaging these things. Tone of voice, face expressions, body language. ,And here comes the kicker: High-Masking autistic people are read as MORE honest and authentic by allistic people. Yes more honest no less. Because they show behavior that is you would say is more "in unison" from the point of view of an allistic person. It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. There are studies that show they are worse or close to random chance. Flipping a coin is as reliable as "listening to your gut". People that think they are good at communication are the worst because they don't realize how full of shit they are. You can't know how another person feels, they can only tell you. I guess we are back to dunning kruger. Oh, the irony.
JohnBooty 1y ago
This talk about high performers and low performers needing focused environments to perform gets me thinking about the scenario of putting them together. Well, hold up. I think that some large school districts in major cities have magnet schools for gifted kids. But to my knowledge in America most gifted programs are not some kind of total segregation and I don't see a lot of people arguing for that either. In my experience in US public schools the "gifted" classes were like maybe 1/4 of our total classroom time. Likewise with developmentally-challenged kids. Most programs have an emphasis on varying levels of integration with the other kids. In some schools, the special-ed kids are in "regular" classrooms but have their own semi-dedicated assistants. (Example: 1 teacher, 20 kids, plus 1 special-ed assistant and 3-4 special ed kids)
- austin-cheney 1y ago
  My wife works in a large public school system with academically disabled children. That school system, and it appears so in various degrees in neighboring school systems, that children with extreme academic performance disabilities are well separated from the general population, because they need more dedicated resources and if they are mixed into the general student population will consume a disproportionate amount of resources as to become a distraction. Super high achieving students, likewise, have special needs. They don't necessary require as much assistance as the students at the low end of the spectrum but they do require more dedicated resources. This is part because they move fast enough academically to consume educational material faster than general education can fill their needs. It isn't that the education material needs to be more challenging, but that it must also be replenished at a much faster rate. I have noticed these same sorts of trends during my software career as well. The low performers are bored because they have trouble with the standard tasks. If they are recoverable through coaching then its not a problem, but otherwise they can become a huge drag on the team. This is also true of high performers. High performers tend to get bored and distracted and have higher availability than there peers. Many of these high performers tend to do things they aren't supposed to, like contributing to competing open source or taking outside jobs, just to stay occupied.

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incognito124 1y ago

While interesting in itself, I don't see how both groups would benefit from such an arrangement

cardanome 1y ago

Do you consider yourself one of those people for those " the negative space in a conversation is just words in a different form"? Where is that take even coming from? Communication styles are very cultural. Japanese is very subtext-heavy while German is very direct. Are Japanese people more intelligent than German people? Furthermore it depends on how your brain is wired. Autistic people prefer direct communication while allistic (that means non-autistic) people rely more on context. Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. People that read crap into stuff that was never said grind my gears so much. It creates so much unnecessary drama. The claim that one form of communication is same sign of being a "high performer" is completely insane.

austin-cheney 1y ago
> Personally, I prefer people that are more direct. When your social intelligence is high enough you realize everybody is always direct because communication is multidimensional. Honest only occurs when the words, vocalization, and body language are all in unison. Even then honesty only matters so much if the substance of content is inaccurate or invalid. Since you brought up autism, most people attempt to mask their emotions in times of discomfort. Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. As a counter example watch North Korea ambassadors speak at the UN. They are emotionless in their answers and its extremely unnatural. They do that intentionally, because no answer is ultimately safe and the greatest threat to their security comes from defiance to their own nation. As to your last statement high performance generally describes some utility, like a test score or job skill. Strong communication skills are generally described as an aptitude as opposed to a utility.
- cardanome 1y ago
  > Masking is a form of dishonesty and people who are good a communication see it as such. Masking is autistic people adjusting their communication style so they are more acceptable to allistic people while neglecting their own needs. For example many autistic people show emotions differently. They can default to a flatter tone of voice or show less microexpressions in the face i.e a flatter affect. (Just to be clear, it does not mean they have less emotions. Just because someone expresses emotions differently does not mean they have more or less. Again, they could be for example extremely happy but you would read them as withdrawn and disinterested.) Much of autistic masking can be micromanaging these things. Tone of voice, face expressions, body language. ,And here comes the kicker: High-Masking autistic people are read as MORE honest and authentic by allistic people. Yes more honest no less. Because they show behavior that is you would say is more "in unison" from the point of view of an allistic person. It is the same effect when people think they are good at spotting a liar. There are studies that show they are worse or close to random chance. Flipping a coin is as reliable as "listening to your gut". People that think they are good at communication are the worst because they don't realize how full of shit they are. You can't know how another person feels, they can only tell you. I guess we are back to dunning kruger. Oh, the irony.

JohnBooty 1y ago

This talk about high performers and low performers needing focused environments to perform gets me thinking about the scenario of putting them together. Well, hold up. I think that some large school districts in major cities have magnet schools for gifted kids. But to my knowledge in America most gifted programs are not some kind of total segregation and I don't see a lot of people arguing for that either. In my experience in US public schools the "gifted" classes were like maybe 1/4 of our total classroom time. Likewise with developmentally-challenged kids. Most programs have an emphasis on varying levels of integration with the other kids. In some schools, the special-ed kids are in "regular" classrooms but have their own semi-dedicated assistants. (Example: 1 teacher, 20 kids, plus 1 special-ed assistant and 3-4 special ed kids)

austin-cheney 1y ago
My wife works in a large public school system with academically disabled children. That school system, and it appears so in various degrees in neighboring school systems, that children with extreme academic performance disabilities are well separated from the general population, because they need more dedicated resources and if they are mixed into the general student population will consume a disproportionate amount of resources as to become a distraction. Super high achieving students, likewise, have special needs. They don't necessary require as much assistance as the students at the low end of the spectrum but they do require more dedicated resources. This is part because they move fast enough academically to consume educational material faster than general education can fill their needs. It isn't that the education material needs to be more challenging, but that it must also be replenished at a much faster rate. I have noticed these same sorts of trends during my software career as well. The low performers are bored because they have trouble with the standard tasks. If they are recoverable through coaching then its not a problem, but otherwise they can become a huge drag on the team. This is also true of high performers. High performers tend to get bored and distracted and have higher availability than there peers. Many of these high performers tend to do things they aren't supposed to, like contributing to competing open source or taking outside jobs, just to stay occupied.