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Proton explains this here: https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn_and_tesonet/ https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4

Proton explains this here: https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn_and_tesonet/ https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/prot... I suppose you're free not to believe them, but I'm unsure what exactly you believe is happening here and what exactly Proton is lying about. Tesonet secretly owns them and has been running a decades-long misinformation campaign to trick you into thinking they don't? To what end? It's not like Tesonet is some nefarious company we should all be afraid of. What would they gain from lying about this if it were true? And how can they make such an obvious mistake with their certs and then not make another one for the next decade? It's just not plausible. At some point, you've gotta use some common sense.

rasengan 1y ago
My comment still applies regardless of any level of “explaining” [1]: 1. Either Nord/Teso are loose with keys (horrible) Or 2. Proton isn’t being truthful. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy or anything that it is Tesonet/Nord. Rather, the problem is you cannot trust someone with your privacy if they can’t even manage their own keys. [1] The explanation is poor at best and doesn’t explain why they worked so hard to try to delete all of the evidence (all of which was archived already). Additionally, nothing can explain away the lack of security with key management across these two orgs.
- InsideOutSanta 1y ago
  The people who couldn't handle their keys were at Nord. The people you trust are at Proton. > worked so hard to try to delete all of the evidence The cert is still there. Apparently, they didn't work nearly hard enough.
  - rasengan 1y ago
    They worked pretty hard as detailed in an archived article changing names and any records they could [1], but you're right - not good enough [2]. As pointed out on this reddit post [3], Proton's appears to contradict itself a number of times. It's a good thing trust based VPN's are obsolete. After all, trust isn't constant [4] as seen in this article showing how Proton supplied IP addresses to "authorities." [1] https://archive.ph/wG8t8 https://archive.ph/wG8t8 [2] https://archive.ph/4bzBm https://archive.ph/4bzBm [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8x9aik/protonvpn_is_being_operated_by_a_data_mining_firm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8x9aik/protonvp... [4] https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
    - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
      > Created by supposed MIT and CERN scientists This is a hilarious way to start an ostensibly serious investigation. It's not as if you could easily figure out the answer to that. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you're a clown.
idiotsecant 1y ago
[flagged]
- InsideOutSanta 1y ago
  >You're devoting a lot of emotional energy You're on the Internet. How are you surprised that someone is repeatedly responding in a thread about a very obscure topic, especially when people are posting conspiracy theories? It's interesting to have these discussions. But it is funny that people's conspiratorial thinking now makes me a part of the conspiracy merely for pointing out easily verifiable facts. >What is your relationship to either company? I subscribe to Proton's services, so I was originally interested in finding out what actually happened. Now I'm interested in pointing out people's flawed reasoning because I think Proton is doing something valuable, and I don't want these attacks against them to go unanswered. Since we're now part of this thread, as the attack on Proton was orchestrated initially by a competitor and seemed to use bot accounts on Twitter, how much do they pay you to try to discredit me? Just kidding, see above. You and I, we are the same. We do it because it is interesting.
  - megaloblasto 1y ago
    How is thinking that a company might be doing PR work in a hacker news tread a conspiracy theory?
    - 0manrho 1y ago
      It isn't, it's common sense and common practice.
    - smileybarry 1y ago
      That's not the conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory is painting every single commenter as part of said company/PR agency.

rasengan 1y ago

My comment still applies regardless of any level of “explaining” [1]: 1. Either Nord/Teso are loose with keys (horrible) Or 2. Proton isn’t being truthful. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy or anything that it is Tesonet/Nord. Rather, the problem is you cannot trust someone with your privacy if they can’t even manage their own keys. [1] The explanation is poor at best and doesn’t explain why they worked so hard to try to delete all of the evidence (all of which was archived already). Additionally, nothing can explain away the lack of security with key management across these two orgs.

InsideOutSanta 1y ago
The people who couldn't handle their keys were at Nord. The people you trust are at Proton. > worked so hard to try to delete all of the evidence The cert is still there. Apparently, they didn't work nearly hard enough.
- rasengan 1y ago
  They worked pretty hard as detailed in an archived article changing names and any records they could [1], but you're right - not good enough [2]. As pointed out on this reddit post [3], Proton's appears to contradict itself a number of times. It's a good thing trust based VPN's are obsolete. After all, trust isn't constant [4] as seen in this article showing how Proton supplied IP addresses to "authorities." [1] https://archive.ph/wG8t8 https://archive.ph/wG8t8 [2] https://archive.ph/4bzBm https://archive.ph/4bzBm [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8x9aik/protonvpn_is_being_operated_by_a_data_mining_firm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/8x9aik/protonvp... [4] https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
  - InsideOutSanta 1y ago
    > Created by supposed MIT and CERN scientists This is a hilarious way to start an ostensibly serious investigation. It's not as if you could easily figure out the answer to that. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you're a clown.

idiotsecant 1y ago

[flagged]

InsideOutSanta 1y ago
>You're devoting a lot of emotional energy You're on the Internet. How are you surprised that someone is repeatedly responding in a thread about a very obscure topic, especially when people are posting conspiracy theories? It's interesting to have these discussions. But it is funny that people's conspiratorial thinking now makes me a part of the conspiracy merely for pointing out easily verifiable facts. >What is your relationship to either company? I subscribe to Proton's services, so I was originally interested in finding out what actually happened. Now I'm interested in pointing out people's flawed reasoning because I think Proton is doing something valuable, and I don't want these attacks against them to go unanswered. Since we're now part of this thread, as the attack on Proton was orchestrated initially by a competitor and seemed to use bot accounts on Twitter, how much do they pay you to try to discredit me? Just kidding, see above. You and I, we are the same. We do it because it is interesting.
- megaloblasto 1y ago
  How is thinking that a company might be doing PR work in a hacker news tread a conspiracy theory?
  - 0manrho 1y ago
    It isn't, it's common sense and common practice.
  - smileybarry 1y ago
    That's not the conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory is painting every single commenter as part of said company/PR agency.