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> Firstly, unmined resources are large. But where are those resources? Because we have relatively cheap lithium batteries mostly because we exploit third-worl

by znpy 1y ago

> Firstly, unmined resources are large. But where are those resources? Because we have relatively cheap lithium batteries mostly because we exploit third-world countries (often including child-labor) and conveniently ignore that part. Had lithium to be extracted paying regular wages i doubt it would be as cheap as it is today.

defrost 1y ago
> But where are those resources? There's a service for that, sold to S&P a decade or so back now: https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/industries/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/industries/m... > we have relatively cheap lithium batteries mostly because we exploit third-world countries (often including child-labor) Citation needed, there's no child labour at Greenbushes and other large global production sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_mining_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_mining_in_Australia Children are less effective at mining than massive excavators and 100 tonne HaulPaks. > Had lithium to be extracted paying regular wages i doubt it would be as cheap as it is today. Pay and conditions at largest hard rock lithium mine globally: https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/payguides/fairwork/ma000011/pdf https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/payguides/fairwork/ma00001... https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awards-summary/ma000011-summary https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awa... Basic weekly pay rates ~ $1,000 (AU) .. plus public holiday and Sunday loading, increases for specialized skills, Night shift rates, trade skills, more paid vacation time than in the US, long service leave, etc. -- Currently a good many lithium mines are shuttered, closed down until the market demand rises, after many of them were opened in anticipation of much greater demand. Moreover, lithium batteries are not essential to the problem of large scale grid storage; they are energy per kilogram of weight efficient and ideal for cars and battery power on the go; for grid storage there are much heavier batteries that deliver less energy per kilogram .. and that doesn't matter as the battery farms don't move.

by znpy 1y ago

defrost 1y ago

> But where are those resources? There's a service for that, sold to S&P a decade or so back now: https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/industries/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/industries/m... > we have relatively cheap lithium batteries mostly because we exploit third-world countries (often including child-labor) Citation needed, there's no child labour at Greenbushes and other large global production sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_mining_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_mining_in_Australia Children are less effective at mining than massive excavators and 100 tonne HaulPaks. > Had lithium to be extracted paying regular wages i doubt it would be as cheap as it is today. Pay and conditions at largest hard rock lithium mine globally: https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/payguides/fairwork/ma000011/pdf https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/payguides/fairwork/ma00001... https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awards-summary/ma000011-summary https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awa... Basic weekly pay rates ~ $1,000 (AU) .. plus public holiday and Sunday loading, increases for specialized skills, Night shift rates, trade skills, more paid vacation time than in the US, long service leave, etc. -- Currently a good many lithium mines are shuttered, closed down until the market demand rises, after many of them were opened in anticipation of much greater demand. Moreover, lithium batteries are not essential to the problem of large scale grid storage; they are energy per kilogram of weight efficient and ideal for cars and battery power on the go; for grid storage there are much heavier batteries that deliver less energy per kilogram .. and that doesn't matter as the battery farms don't move.