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You couldn't survive with just a backpack if other people "overcame their materialism" and didn't own all of the capital that allowed you to survive, like provi

You couldn't survive with just a backpack if other people "overcame their materialism" and didn't own all of the capital that allowed you to survive, like providing you your equipment, food, knowledge, and emergency rescue if it came to it. Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism, or in common parlance, a first world problem. It is a luxury that cannot be indulged by poor societies.

rhubarbtree 1y ago
I travelled the world with a backpack. The good news is, it took me nearly 20 years before I started taking hot showers for granted again. It really did make me very grateful for a lot of things. But I’ve also had similar thoughts to you. I watch a lot of hiking videos of the PCT etc as one day I’d like to walk it. When I watch those videos, and when I see people on social media telling folks to “drop out of the system, be free.” I can’t help but wonder exactly who is going to prepare their dehydrated meal packs for them. Absolutely nothing wrong with taking such trips, made me a better and more grateful person, but it’s not an alternative lifestyle.
- bloggie 1y ago
  This perspective reminds me that when people ask, oh you grow your own food and have food animals, it's like living off grid? their perspective is that farms get their input from the ground and sky, but this hasn't been true in centuries. there are many high-tech inputs for all types of modern farming, such as chemicals (even if they are organic chemicals), fuel, machinery, seeds, infrastructure, knowledge, financial instruments, and a market. in order to live off-grid, first you must invent the universe...
  - jacobr1 1y ago
    And need to acquire land
  - elevation 1y ago
    > in order to live off-grid, first you must invent the universe... Nobody is reinventing the universe, they just want a buffer. A buffer is a well made item that you can repair yourself, so you're not forced to purchase a replacement. A buffer is a shoebox with a lifetime supply of your favorite shaving razor. A buffer is a garden, a pantry of canned goods, a few hens to lay eggs for you. Each of these buffers insulates the bearer from the effects of supply chain disruption or even unemployment. Walmart could be out of eggs and razors -- but you'll be fine for quite some time, even if you didn't incubate your own chicks or make the razors by hand. > farms get their input from the ground and sky, but this hasn't been true in centuries Yes, industrial scales require industrial inputs, but a few hens will happily yield you a few eggs a day while living off your garden scraps and the insects they scratch up. And their waste returns nutrients to the soil -- a boone for a garden.
Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
Of course you can. This is just crabs in a bucket mentality. > Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism false dichotomy. Of course capitalism and our indulgence in material goods has gone too far. That does not mean we have to be totally pious in life.
falcor84 1y ago
There might be some version of a future where robots take care of managing the industry for our benefit in a post-scarcity setting, allowing us humans to live as simple a life as we want, knowing that when a material need arises the robots will be willing and able to quickly fulfill it for us. I don't think that's where we're headed, but I like imagining.
- Muromec 1y ago
  With the direction everything is moving, we will get back slavery faster than we will get robots and AGI.
  - falcor84 1y ago
    My sci-fi filled head makes me most concerned they these will arrive concurrently.
  - techdmn 1y ago
    Slavery never went away, it just changed its name to Prison Labor. For fun here's a pair of stories about people being held past their release dates: * https://promiseofjustice.org/news/louisianans-illegally-kept-in-prison-win-bolster-from-doj-lawsuit-5mdd4 https://promiseofjustice.org/news/louisianans-illegally-kept... * https://www.corrections1.com/law-and-legislation/articles/report-23-sc-inmates-held-past-end-of-their-sentences-2PCQe2H3CxV33Gwv/ https://www.corrections1.com/law-and-legislation/articles/re...
    - bmicraft 1y ago
      For a lot of countries, it did go away.
      - adastra22 1y ago
        It may have been made illegal, but it hasn’t gone away.
        1y ago
beAbU 1y ago
> Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism It's like kink-shaming being someone's actual kink. Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism because you are overindulging yourself in your own sense of pride and smugness for "being better than everyone else" Not that the author of TFA is doing this, but claiming that you have overcome materialism while at the same time posting about it on instagram with your latest iphone, recording yourself on insta360 cameras, with your apple watch-recorded heart-rate superimposed on your videos is a bit silly.
- freedaddy 1y ago
  "criticizing hedonism is its own kind of hedonism"... ok by this logic it seems youve totally insulated the idea of hedonism from being criticized?
tyrust 1y ago
Poor societies are perfectly capable of criticizing hedonism. I don't see what's luxurious about criticizing the many examples of absurd resource waste through luxury good consumption.

rhubarbtree 1y ago

I travelled the world with a backpack. The good news is, it took me nearly 20 years before I started taking hot showers for granted again. It really did make me very grateful for a lot of things. But I’ve also had similar thoughts to you. I watch a lot of hiking videos of the PCT etc as one day I’d like to walk it. When I watch those videos, and when I see people on social media telling folks to “drop out of the system, be free.” I can’t help but wonder exactly who is going to prepare their dehydrated meal packs for them. Absolutely nothing wrong with taking such trips, made me a better and more grateful person, but it’s not an alternative lifestyle.

bloggie 1y ago
This perspective reminds me that when people ask, oh you grow your own food and have food animals, it's like living off grid? their perspective is that farms get their input from the ground and sky, but this hasn't been true in centuries. there are many high-tech inputs for all types of modern farming, such as chemicals (even if they are organic chemicals), fuel, machinery, seeds, infrastructure, knowledge, financial instruments, and a market. in order to live off-grid, first you must invent the universe...
- jacobr1 1y ago
  And need to acquire land
- elevation 1y ago
  > in order to live off-grid, first you must invent the universe... Nobody is reinventing the universe, they just want a buffer. A buffer is a well made item that you can repair yourself, so you're not forced to purchase a replacement. A buffer is a shoebox with a lifetime supply of your favorite shaving razor. A buffer is a garden, a pantry of canned goods, a few hens to lay eggs for you. Each of these buffers insulates the bearer from the effects of supply chain disruption or even unemployment. Walmart could be out of eggs and razors -- but you'll be fine for quite some time, even if you didn't incubate your own chicks or make the razors by hand. > farms get their input from the ground and sky, but this hasn't been true in centuries Yes, industrial scales require industrial inputs, but a few hens will happily yield you a few eggs a day while living off your garden scraps and the insects they scratch up. And their waste returns nutrients to the soil -- a boone for a garden.

Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago

Of course you can. This is just crabs in a bucket mentality. > Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism false dichotomy. Of course capitalism and our indulgence in material goods has gone too far. That does not mean we have to be totally pious in life.

falcor84 1y ago

There might be some version of a future where robots take care of managing the industry for our benefit in a post-scarcity setting, allowing us humans to live as simple a life as we want, knowing that when a material need arises the robots will be willing and able to quickly fulfill it for us. I don't think that's where we're headed, but I like imagining.

Muromec 1y ago
With the direction everything is moving, we will get back slavery faster than we will get robots and AGI.
- falcor84 1y ago
  My sci-fi filled head makes me most concerned they these will arrive concurrently.
- techdmn 1y ago
  Slavery never went away, it just changed its name to Prison Labor. For fun here's a pair of stories about people being held past their release dates: * https://promiseofjustice.org/news/louisianans-illegally-kept-in-prison-win-bolster-from-doj-lawsuit-5mdd4 https://promiseofjustice.org/news/louisianans-illegally-kept... * https://www.corrections1.com/law-and-legislation/articles/report-23-sc-inmates-held-past-end-of-their-sentences-2PCQe2H3CxV33Gwv/ https://www.corrections1.com/law-and-legislation/articles/re...
  - bmicraft 1y ago
    For a lot of countries, it did go away.
    - adastra22 1y ago
      It may have been made illegal, but it hasn’t gone away.
      - 1y ago

beAbU 1y ago

> Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism It's like kink-shaming being someone's actual kink. Criticizing "hedonism" is its own kind of hedonism because you are overindulging yourself in your own sense of pride and smugness for "being better than everyone else" Not that the author of TFA is doing this, but claiming that you have overcome materialism while at the same time posting about it on instagram with your latest iphone, recording yourself on insta360 cameras, with your apple watch-recorded heart-rate superimposed on your videos is a bit silly.

freedaddy 1y ago
"criticizing hedonism is its own kind of hedonism"... ok by this logic it seems youve totally insulated the idea of hedonism from being criticized?

tyrust 1y ago

Poor societies are perfectly capable of criticizing hedonism. I don't see what's luxurious about criticizing the many examples of absurd resource waste through luxury good consumption.