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>those sales will exist pretty much indefinitely. To an extent sure, but when people that grew up as home consumers not using Windows become business leaders t

>those sales will exist pretty much indefinitely. To an extent sure, but when people that grew up as home consumers not using Windows become business leaders they won't have the brand loyalty to Microsoft that the current aging out generation does. If Google doesn't characteristically fumble the bag their dominance with ChromeOS in schools has potential pay major dividends in 10-15 years. Windows centric software development is pretty much completely driven by business leaders 50+ years old on the young end.

snovymgodym 1y ago
A striking amount of business software runs on Windows because Microsoft was dominant during the peak PC era (e.g. 1990-2010). The companies running that stuff aren't doing so because old guys think Windows is good, they're running it because it's been built already and there's no real reason to change. The next generation of business leaders already didn't build their companies on Windows or any other PC operating system because web apps replaced desktop apps and mobile devices overtook PCs in market share. But it doesn't really matter to Microsoft. Microsoft isn't really the "Windows Company" anymore and hasn't been for some time. Azure, Office365, Sharepoint, etc. revenue dwarfs what Windows brings in and wouldn't be affected by Windows losing market share because everything is a web/electron client for a cloud service now. In some ways, I suspect Microsoft views the Windows market share as more of a liability than an asset these days, because it makes them responsible for bad press events like BlueKeep and WannaCry. Business customers frequently buy support contracts with their licenses, whereas private consumers expect indefinite updates for a one time $120 fee. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if they were intentionally letting consumer Windows slowly fade away.
- binary132 1y ago
  What percentage of new computers are sold running windows again? I suspect the reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Even OEMs that have the option to select Linux, e.g. Dell, Lenovo, have "works best with Windows" all over the place, one needs to be rather persistent to track down the Linux as pre-installed OS options.
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    Macs were at a bit over 10% market share in q4 2024[1], but it's also worth noting that the PC market is shrinking as a whole. Windows still has most of the pie, but the pie itself is getting smaller, since many find phones to be a better (and cheaper) experience than Windows, and I can't say that I blame them. I'm curious how inflated the numbers are from business sales, since the default option there is still Windows, even if you don't actually use any software that needs it (i.e. you just need a web browser). Consumer sales of PCs is probably only going to trend downwards, and it only got a small spike from people buying PCs for COVID. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/26/mac-market-share-growing-faster-than-top-three-pc-brands-apple-leads-in-ai/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/26/mac-market-share-growing-fast...
    - pixl97 1y ago
      >many find phones to be a better (and cheaper) experience than Windows, and I can't say that I blame them. With that said at least using native apps on phones is becoming more and more of a risk. If you can get away with a browser that's fine. But if you need native phone features you are at the risk of Apple/Google cutting off your entire business for some hidden reason and nearly zero recourse. On that note people have been getting more worried about Apple starting to treat their desktop OS like a phone and locking it down more.
      - Telaneo 1y ago
        The risk of that happening, while real and problematic, is not a real concern for most people, as the liklyhood of anything happening is really low. Same goes for the OS being more closed of. The normies, to out it that way, are happy with the normal app store experience and won't notice the difference before and after a complete lockdown, since they've never gone outside the normal bounds to begin with.
- cm2187 1y ago
  Hum, how much of the success of azure is due to enterprise customers being in the windows ecosystem already? And what happens when the next enterprises are not?
  - onraglanroad 1y ago
    Around 60% of Azure VMs are Linux. Between that and WSL it sometimes seems like Microsoft is putting more effort into being a Linux company than a Windows one. Who could have predicted that back in the Slashdot days!
    - unethical_ban 1y ago
      They're putting effort into being a cloud corporate software provider. Entra, outlook365, and cloud hosted solutions. VMs in the cloud are niche.
      - kryogen1c 1y ago
        >outlook365 You probably meant office365, but it's been renamed to Microsoft365 :)
        cfreksen 1y ago
        Do you mean Microsoft 365 Copilot[0]? : ) I realise that a good portion of the references to the product on that page is just "Microsoft 365", but other parts seem to include "Copilot" in the product name for Microsoft's office suite. [0]: https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/
SoftTalker 1y ago
Do we believe that we’ll be using anything like today’s PCs and operating systems in 10-15 years time? I mean, that’s been the case since the 1980s, but now we have usable (if imperfect) AI.
- setopt 1y ago
  Personally: Yes, I do. Likely, voice assistants and other AI tools will have a bigger market share in a decade, sure. But I doubt an interface like Alexa can replace a PC-like setup for most of the «real work». Instead, I imagine we’ll just continue the trend of laptops and tablets with AI assistants integrated in better ways, and perhaps a wider adoption of AR/VR in some sectors. Tre The tech that could replace today’s PC setup is a neural interface, but I doubt that NeuraLink et al will be anywhere near mainstream in a decade.
  - toast0 1y ago
    > But I doubt an interface like Alexa can replace a PC-like setup for most of the «real work». Most people, and most workers simply don't do what you call real work that needs a big screen and a keyboard. I think most of the kids at my child's school don't have a computer at home (other than the district issued chromebook) and likely won't ever own a personal computer. People do everything on their phones. Google recently said Chrome OS is going to end next year... I don't know what schools are going to do.
    - setopt 1y ago
      I don’t doubt that a conventional laptop or desktop will be far less common in a decade. But both iPads and Android tablets have keyboard cases. Even many phones can these days be plugged into USB-C docking stations that enable the use of a big screen and keyboard when needed. I agree that most non-programmers will probably end up using phones or tablets with an external keyboard, and even for programming it is kinda usable. Those schools will probably just switch to Android netbooks or Android tablets with keyboard cases. Still, I think that’s very different from AI technologies killing the PC form factor. The hardware and software might change, but I personally think the «screen and keyboard» form factor will remain the default for «work» for the next decade.
lenkite 1y ago
> If Google doesn't characteristically fumble the bag their dominance with ChromeOS in schools has potential pay major dividends in 10-15 years. There will be no ChromeOS anymore - just Android - and it will soon be locked down hard so that you need to pay Google or host ads/harvest data for every app. You just need to make your choice of Tyrant landlord.
makeitdouble 1y ago
The crucial part: these business leaders won't see the ugly consumer side. Enterprise windows is completely different, in that most of the crap we complain about will either be disable at the MDM level, or from the start depending on the license. A CEO being issued a windows laptop isn't barraged with ads, nor do they care if their account is local or not. It will "just work".
- bigmattystyles 1y ago
  I don’t know, I work for a massive (benevolent of course) corporation and it’s still pushy with Lock Screen ads, copilot, etc… and it definitely doesn’t just work. Maybe for the CEO it does though…
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    It might depend on how much your IT departements cares about customizing your setups. The efforts described in TFA for instance don't cover auto install scripts which are still free to create whatever local account is needed, provided it's done through the fleet management mechanisms. Much of the scripts to "debloat" windows also rely on MDM entry points and overriding user preferences with higher privilege.
    - mlrtime 1y ago
      I remember in the early win7 days when I built computers there were many powertools to debloat the install, I had fun running them. Doesn't this exist today for W11 that makes most of the complaints mute? Or is MS getting better at the cat/mouse game?
      - makeitdouble 1y ago
        They still exist, like Win11Debloat. As you point out it's still a cat and mouse game but I assume they work OK. I tend to go the painful way and do most of it myself following instructions, as I'm not comfortable having these tools run as admin on a system. It's not that bad either.
pjmlp 1y ago
That is mostly a thing on US school system.

snovymgodym 1y ago

A striking amount of business software runs on Windows because Microsoft was dominant during the peak PC era (e.g. 1990-2010). The companies running that stuff aren't doing so because old guys think Windows is good, they're running it because it's been built already and there's no real reason to change. The next generation of business leaders already didn't build their companies on Windows or any other PC operating system because web apps replaced desktop apps and mobile devices overtook PCs in market share. But it doesn't really matter to Microsoft. Microsoft isn't really the "Windows Company" anymore and hasn't been for some time. Azure, Office365, Sharepoint, etc. revenue dwarfs what Windows brings in and wouldn't be affected by Windows losing market share because everything is a web/electron client for a cloud service now. In some ways, I suspect Microsoft views the Windows market share as more of a liability than an asset these days, because it makes them responsible for bad press events like BlueKeep and WannaCry. Business customers frequently buy support contracts with their licenses, whereas private consumers expect indefinite updates for a one time $120 fee. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if they were intentionally letting consumer Windows slowly fade away.

binary132 1y ago
What percentage of new computers are sold running windows again? I suspect the reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Even OEMs that have the option to select Linux, e.g. Dell, Lenovo, have "works best with Windows" all over the place, one needs to be rather persistent to track down the Linux as pre-installed OS options.
- Telaneo 1y ago
  Macs were at a bit over 10% market share in q4 2024[1], but it's also worth noting that the PC market is shrinking as a whole. Windows still has most of the pie, but the pie itself is getting smaller, since many find phones to be a better (and cheaper) experience than Windows, and I can't say that I blame them. I'm curious how inflated the numbers are from business sales, since the default option there is still Windows, even if you don't actually use any software that needs it (i.e. you just need a web browser). Consumer sales of PCs is probably only going to trend downwards, and it only got a small spike from people buying PCs for COVID. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/26/mac-market-share-growing-faster-than-top-three-pc-brands-apple-leads-in-ai/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/26/mac-market-share-growing-fast...
  - pixl97 1y ago
    >many find phones to be a better (and cheaper) experience than Windows, and I can't say that I blame them. With that said at least using native apps on phones is becoming more and more of a risk. If you can get away with a browser that's fine. But if you need native phone features you are at the risk of Apple/Google cutting off your entire business for some hidden reason and nearly zero recourse. On that note people have been getting more worried about Apple starting to treat their desktop OS like a phone and locking it down more.
    - Telaneo 1y ago
      The risk of that happening, while real and problematic, is not a real concern for most people, as the liklyhood of anything happening is really low. Same goes for the OS being more closed of. The normies, to out it that way, are happy with the normal app store experience and won't notice the difference before and after a complete lockdown, since they've never gone outside the normal bounds to begin with.
cm2187 1y ago
Hum, how much of the success of azure is due to enterprise customers being in the windows ecosystem already? And what happens when the next enterprises are not?
- onraglanroad 1y ago
  Around 60% of Azure VMs are Linux. Between that and WSL it sometimes seems like Microsoft is putting more effort into being a Linux company than a Windows one. Who could have predicted that back in the Slashdot days!
  - unethical_ban 1y ago
    They're putting effort into being a cloud corporate software provider. Entra, outlook365, and cloud hosted solutions. VMs in the cloud are niche.
    - kryogen1c 1y ago
      >outlook365 You probably meant office365, but it's been renamed to Microsoft365 :)
      - cfreksen 1y ago
        Do you mean Microsoft 365 Copilot[0]? : ) I realise that a good portion of the references to the product on that page is just "Microsoft 365", but other parts seem to include "Copilot" in the product name for Microsoft's office suite. [0]: https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/

SoftTalker 1y ago

Do we believe that we’ll be using anything like today’s PCs and operating systems in 10-15 years time? I mean, that’s been the case since the 1980s, but now we have usable (if imperfect) AI.

setopt 1y ago
Personally: Yes, I do. Likely, voice assistants and other AI tools will have a bigger market share in a decade, sure. But I doubt an interface like Alexa can replace a PC-like setup for most of the «real work». Instead, I imagine we’ll just continue the trend of laptops and tablets with AI assistants integrated in better ways, and perhaps a wider adoption of AR/VR in some sectors. Tre The tech that could replace today’s PC setup is a neural interface, but I doubt that NeuraLink et al will be anywhere near mainstream in a decade.
- toast0 1y ago
  > But I doubt an interface like Alexa can replace a PC-like setup for most of the «real work». Most people, and most workers simply don't do what you call real work that needs a big screen and a keyboard. I think most of the kids at my child's school don't have a computer at home (other than the district issued chromebook) and likely won't ever own a personal computer. People do everything on their phones. Google recently said Chrome OS is going to end next year... I don't know what schools are going to do.
  - setopt 1y ago
    I don’t doubt that a conventional laptop or desktop will be far less common in a decade. But both iPads and Android tablets have keyboard cases. Even many phones can these days be plugged into USB-C docking stations that enable the use of a big screen and keyboard when needed. I agree that most non-programmers will probably end up using phones or tablets with an external keyboard, and even for programming it is kinda usable. Those schools will probably just switch to Android netbooks or Android tablets with keyboard cases. Still, I think that’s very different from AI technologies killing the PC form factor. The hardware and software might change, but I personally think the «screen and keyboard» form factor will remain the default for «work» for the next decade.

lenkite 1y ago

> If Google doesn't characteristically fumble the bag their dominance with ChromeOS in schools has potential pay major dividends in 10-15 years. There will be no ChromeOS anymore - just Android - and it will soon be locked down hard so that you need to pay Google or host ads/harvest data for every app. You just need to make your choice of Tyrant landlord.

makeitdouble 1y ago

The crucial part: these business leaders won't see the ugly consumer side. Enterprise windows is completely different, in that most of the crap we complain about will either be disable at the MDM level, or from the start depending on the license. A CEO being issued a windows laptop isn't barraged with ads, nor do they care if their account is local or not. It will "just work".

bigmattystyles 1y ago
I don’t know, I work for a massive (benevolent of course) corporation and it’s still pushy with Lock Screen ads, copilot, etc… and it definitely doesn’t just work. Maybe for the CEO it does though…
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  It might depend on how much your IT departements cares about customizing your setups. The efforts described in TFA for instance don't cover auto install scripts which are still free to create whatever local account is needed, provided it's done through the fleet management mechanisms. Much of the scripts to "debloat" windows also rely on MDM entry points and overriding user preferences with higher privilege.
  - mlrtime 1y ago
    I remember in the early win7 days when I built computers there were many powertools to debloat the install, I had fun running them. Doesn't this exist today for W11 that makes most of the complaints mute? Or is MS getting better at the cat/mouse game?
    - makeitdouble 1y ago
      They still exist, like Win11Debloat. As you point out it's still a cat and mouse game but I assume they work OK. I tend to go the painful way and do most of it myself following instructions, as I'm not comfortable having these tools run as admin on a system. It's not that bad either.

pjmlp 1y ago

That is mostly a thing on US school system.