6 ms·

I'm a linux fan but calling linux user-focused is insane.

by r00t- 1y ago

john01dav 1y ago
It's user-focused in the sense that the user's goals drive the design. The good non-profit distributions, such as Debian and Arch, would never even try to require or push an online account, since that is contrary to the user's interests.
- lostmsu 1y ago
  I think in Linux developers drive the design more than users.
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    Linux developers are the primary users of Linux if you think about it
    - esseph 1y ago
      Lot of network admins, sysadmins, security -types.
    - lostmsu 1y ago
      There are no primary users. And no, Linux developers are a minority.
- opan 1y ago
  Not disagreeing with you, but your comment brought back memories of Ubuntu One, and the amazon spyware(?) search thing. Ubuntu is kind of the Windows of the GNU/Linux world in that they repeatedly do user-hostile things that test everyone's limits.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    I'm sure that's why they weren't included in the examples of "the good non-profit distributions". It's not like Ubuntu is going to be overlooked. But they are malicious.
    - avhception 1y ago
      The snap disaster really was the final nail in the coffin for me. That bug report about ~/snap has to be the hottest bug in their bugtracker, and they simply don't seem to give a shit and pretend it's fine. All the while naive users like my father or colleagues at my workplace shoot themselves in the foot by thinking "what's that folder doing in my home directory? Delete." I'm not sure if that's still the case, but there was a time when that simply hosed your whole snap installation. It's also completely ridiculous when you run "docker run ubuntu; apt install whatever" only to find out that "whatever" is now a snap and won't run w/o getting into nested containerization. For packages that got the snap treatment, window tracking for the Gnome dash was broken for ages if, god forbid, you wanted to create a custom .desktop file to add some parameters. Completely broke the custom launchers I created. I created bug reports, I tried to work with them. Others did, too. Some of these reports approach 10 years now. I am purging Ubuntu from all of my employers systems, replacing it with RockyLinux. Only one major application still to go. Friends and family get Debian, that transition is already completed.
      - everybodyknows 1y ago
        > get Debian I want to do the same, but there was some heavy discord at the top of the community a year or so ago that left me fearing for the org's future. If there was a satisfactory resolution, I haven't heard about it. Anyone been following this?
        avhception 1y ago
        That's concerning to hear. What discord? The number one thing I want from Debian is predictability, dependability. Other than that, it's not even that great of a distro. I don't use it for my own machines.
  - john01dav 1y ago
    Yeah, I would not use Ubuntu if I can help it. I'd still rather use it over Windows. This is why I specifically said "The good non-profit distributions," and not "Linux distributions" or some other broader phrase.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    Nobody forces you to use Ubuntu. Thats the thing. If Ubuntu fucks up, I can switch to another distro at the blink of an eye and nothing of value was lost.
- sugarpimpdorsey 1y ago
  Developer goals drive the design, not users. It's how we ended up with such navel-gazing insanity as GNOME 3.
jackyinger 1y ago
I beg to differ. There is less corporate BS on Linux than any mainstream OS. The software if largely by users for users. Obviously it caters to the power user, but it also works well for extremely novice users. It’s those savvy with Win/Mac that get screwed switching. I’d encourage them to put a bit more into trying.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
hamandcheese 1y ago
I think perhaps you are conflating user-friendly and user-focused. Linux, and open source in general, is infinitely more user-focused than anything from Microsoft, since open source is often built for users and by users. But if you don't have great computer skills already, Linux can be extremely un-friendly the moment you step off the beaten path.
- secstate 1y ago
  I mean, unless you know the various arcane aspects of Windows, it's pretty hilariously un-friendly when you step off the path, too. After a decade of using Gnome exclusively, whenever a friend asks for help with Windows, all I can do is shrug and suggest reinstalling and/or living with the pain.
- mnw21cam 1y ago
  Linux is user-friendly. It is just very particular about who its friends are.
wildzzz 1y ago
Linux is user focused but not user friendly. Of course there are exceptions, anyone can use a steamdeck without ever having to leave the steam app.
Ekaros 1y ago
Only for given value of user... If user is linux nerd well yes. For more casual users there is way too many weird annoyances and problems. Maybe not with single version, but migrating between or at end of LTS support...

I'm a linux fan but calling linux user-focused is insane.

by r00t- 1y ago

I'm a linux fan but calling linux user-focused is insane.

It's user-focused in the sense that the user's goals drive the design. The good non-profit distributions, such as Debian and Arch, would never even try to require or push an online account, since that is contrary to the user's interests.

lostmsu 1y ago
I think in Linux developers drive the design more than users.
- estimator7292 1y ago
  Linux developers are the primary users of Linux if you think about it
  - esseph 1y ago
    Lot of network admins, sysadmins, security -types.
  - lostmsu 1y ago
    There are no primary users. And no, Linux developers are a minority.
opan 1y ago
Not disagreeing with you, but your comment brought back memories of Ubuntu One, and the amazon spyware(?) search thing. Ubuntu is kind of the Windows of the GNU/Linux world in that they repeatedly do user-hostile things that test everyone's limits.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  I'm sure that's why they weren't included in the examples of "the good non-profit distributions". It's not like Ubuntu is going to be overlooked. But they are malicious.
  - avhception 1y ago
    The snap disaster really was the final nail in the coffin for me. That bug report about ~/snap has to be the hottest bug in their bugtracker, and they simply don't seem to give a shit and pretend it's fine. All the while naive users like my father or colleagues at my workplace shoot themselves in the foot by thinking "what's that folder doing in my home directory? Delete." I'm not sure if that's still the case, but there was a time when that simply hosed your whole snap installation. It's also completely ridiculous when you run "docker run ubuntu; apt install whatever" only to find out that "whatever" is now a snap and won't run w/o getting into nested containerization. For packages that got the snap treatment, window tracking for the Gnome dash was broken for ages if, god forbid, you wanted to create a custom .desktop file to add some parameters. Completely broke the custom launchers I created. I created bug reports, I tried to work with them. Others did, too. Some of these reports approach 10 years now. I am purging Ubuntu from all of my employers systems, replacing it with RockyLinux. Only one major application still to go. Friends and family get Debian, that transition is already completed.
    - everybodyknows 1y ago
      > get Debian I want to do the same, but there was some heavy discord at the top of the community a year or so ago that left me fearing for the org's future. If there was a satisfactory resolution, I haven't heard about it. Anyone been following this?
      - avhception 1y ago
        That's concerning to hear. What discord? The number one thing I want from Debian is predictability, dependability. Other than that, it's not even that great of a distro. I don't use it for my own machines.
- john01dav 1y ago
  Yeah, I would not use Ubuntu if I can help it. I'd still rather use it over Windows. This is why I specifically said "The good non-profit distributions," and not "Linux distributions" or some other broader phrase.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  Nobody forces you to use Ubuntu. Thats the thing. If Ubuntu fucks up, I can switch to another distro at the blink of an eye and nothing of value was lost.
sugarpimpdorsey 1y ago
Developer goals drive the design, not users. It's how we ended up with such navel-gazing insanity as GNOME 3.

jackyinger 1y ago

I beg to differ. There is less corporate BS on Linux than any mainstream OS. The software if largely by users for users. Obviously it caters to the power user, but it also works well for extremely novice users. It’s those savvy with Win/Mac that get screwed switching. I’d encourage them to put a bit more into trying.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

hamandcheese 1y ago

I think perhaps you are conflating user-friendly and user-focused. Linux, and open source in general, is infinitely more user-focused than anything from Microsoft, since open source is often built for users and by users. But if you don't have great computer skills already, Linux can be extremely un-friendly the moment you step off the beaten path.

secstate 1y ago
I mean, unless you know the various arcane aspects of Windows, it's pretty hilariously un-friendly when you step off the path, too. After a decade of using Gnome exclusively, whenever a friend asks for help with Windows, all I can do is shrug and suggest reinstalling and/or living with the pain.
mnw21cam 1y ago
Linux is user-friendly. It is just very particular about who its friends are.

wildzzz 1y ago

Linux is user focused but not user friendly. Of course there are exceptions, anyone can use a steamdeck without ever having to leave the steam app.

Ekaros 1y ago

Only for given value of user... If user is linux nerd well yes. For more casual users there is way too many weird annoyances and problems. Maybe not with single version, but migrating between or at end of LTS support...