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XMPP lacked good, modern clients, so folks designed a terrible protocol, and then made modern clients with this kind of feature for that protocol. There’s an e
by WhyNotHugo 1y ago
XMPP lacked good, modern clients, so folks designed a terrible protocol, and then made modern clients with this kind of feature for that protocol.
There’s an extra step that could have been skipped entirely there and we’d be better off.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoIt would be cool for clients and protocols to be separated by an abstraction layer, it might change the n times m to n plus m but I suppose it's difficult
- tcfhgj 1y agowhat do you mean? client - server - server like?
- WhyNotHugo 1y agoWe have precedent of exactly this. Pidgin implemented support for various networks under an abstraction layer and had a unified UI for all of them. XMPP implements this via gateways. I used to talk from XMPP with folks who used MSN or Yahoo on their end. We have gateways for Telegram, WhatsApp and Signal nowadays. The Nokia N900 used the Telepathy framework to expose a local D-Bus messaging service which itself connected to various networks (SMS, MSN, XMPP, etc). The UI was a single unified one for all these networks.
- pkulak 1y ago> designed a terrible protocol Have you looked at the protocol? Have you built things in both? I have, and I think the Matrix protocol is pretty good. The goals are different. It's not a send once and forget kind of thing, like XMPP, Signal and email. It's about keeping your chats synced on your server, and with any other server you happen to be federating with. It's Discord or Slack, except federated. That's not easy, and it's not simple, but it has huge advantages too.
- SJC_Hacker 1y ago> It's not a send once and forget kind of thing, like XMPP, Signal and email. It's about keeping your chats synced on your server, and with any other server you happen to be federating with. It's Discord or Slack, except federated. That's not easy, and it's not simple, but it has huge advantages too. And huge disadvantages. I don't understand why everything has to be centralized/ routed through an intermediary. Well I do understand it, modern big corps wants to be that intermediary for various reasons, but thats a business reason not a technical one.
- dingnuts 1y agoat least when I help someone set up XMPP it doesn't have a single blessed client that tries to convince them to create an account on matrix.org
- tguvot 1y agoiirc, matrix started as attempt by Amdocs (in same org that I worked at) to give to telecoms their own messaging client that will be better than SMS in order to compete with OTT clients that they saw as "unfair" and "eating their revenue" hence, matrix by definition was born due to business reasons and not technical.
- Arathorn 1y agoyou may be mixing up Amdocs UC (which i ran) which was explicitly OTT-messaging-for-telcos… with Matrix, which is what the UC team did next. The point of Matrix is/was to replace the PSTN with a decentralised alt on the internet - so everyone (including Amdocs) could then go build cool stuff on top.
- tguvot 1y agoisn't matrix is direct continuation of amdocs uc with same team, your including ?
- 1y ago
- morshu9001 1y agoYou're assuming negligence or bad intent when you could be looking for a legit reason behind this.