3 ms·

> Clearly you are being told that Iryna Zarutska and Jordan Neely are different. This is no longer coming from a place of curiosity, but a presumption of super

by radlad 1y ago

> Clearly you are being told that Iryna Zarutska and Jordan Neely are different. This is no longer coming from a place of curiosity, but a presumption of superiority. If you assume I am simply brainwashed and have nothing worthwhile to say, there's no point continuing this discussion. Feel free to message me off HN if you change your mind.

dijit 1y ago
There's just me and you here, nobody is reading this thread anymore. I think you don't have an answer for what I'm saying because your mind has gone into "I am attacked, must defend myself" mode - and this is because you've been told to believe that only villains are talking about Iryna, and only Hero's are talking about Jordan. I'm not attacking you, and I am curious. To me Iryna Zarutska is newsworthy, in all the ways I explained. Jordan Neely was publicised widely despite it being much less harrowing and random; so I'm genuinely curious as to why. This isn't a "gotcha". Help me understand how you reconcile this - or if you don't, then fair play and I hope you at least understand that you are not immune to propaganda either.
- radlad 1y ago
  > I think you don't have an answer for what I'm saying because your mind has gone into "I am attacked, must defend myself" mode - and this is because you've been told to believe that only villains are talking about Iryna, and only Hero's are talking about Jordan. No, my problem is your presumption - even here - that I am brainwashed when we were having a logical, rational conversation. I'm incredibly disappointed in you and I really hope you change your tune. This isn't what I expect from you, honestly.
  - dijit 1y ago
    I do think that you're watching a lot of left leaning media and that you're being nudged to think a certain way. Let's not go so far as to claim "brainwash". You can prove me wrong immediately by supplying me with an answer. I'm not disappointed in you, but I will be if you can't step back and assess yourself critically. I do it all the time. That's why I don't care about "not towing the line" for the left; while being a dyed in the wool lefty. (at least by UK standards).
    - radlad 1y ago
      The problem isn't the question - which I have answered you on elsewhere - it's that you're not engaging from a place of curiosity and understanding. This isn't how I know you to be and it's really quite sad. (I also don't watch any news media - on YouTube or TV.) You ignored the bulk of what I wrote, and responded with a one-sentence question, and then went on to tell me that I only have these beliefs because my propagandists want it to be so. This isn't knowable and it's a gross accusation I haven't made about you, despite how easy it is to make. The irony of your own comment here is disgusting.
      - dijit 1y ago
        You're disappointed. I'm disgusting. Lot's of name calling and appeals to emotion. But it seems, you haven't accused me of being wrong, I didn't engage with the bulk of your comment because it's completely irrelevant and factually inaccurate in many places, so there's no point in going down the path of arguing details when there's a clear and obvious double standard that we could talk about instead - one that gets to the meat of the issue- if it's not newsworthy as you claimed. So yeah, I think we're done here. Clearly you're not able to reconcile these situations, and to be clear: you haven't answered me like you claimed. All that has been proven here today is that you cannot think impartially across political lines at things on a human level.
        radlad 1y ago
        I am disappointed, yes - this is a feeling, attributed to me. What you did is disgusting - not you, please don't warp words. Where is the name calling? Yes, we're done here. You are criticizing me for not answering a question - which I answered, off HN - when you ignored the bulk of what I wrote. Your casual dismissal here doesn't resolve that. Look in the mirror.
        dijit 1y ago
        I think you're still missing the main point, and the Daniel Penny case perfectly illustrates it. You're arguing that statistically, a number of deaths from random attacks or involving mental illness occur every day, which is true for a country the size of the US. But newsworthiness is not based on raw numbers; it's based on narrative friction. The Daniel Penny case became a national flashpoint not because a man died, but because it created a political crisis for the media and political establishment. The victim was Black, the assailant was a white former Marine, and the incident raised questions about public safety and vigilantism in a major Democratic city. This was a story that fit the national, race-and-politics-driven script, so it received instant, wall-to-wall coverage, and a $2.9 million legal defense fund was raised internationally. The Iryna Zarutska case created a different kind of political crisis; one that did not fit the pre-approved progressive script and was potentially "toxic" for the establishment's narrative (an innocent white refugee killed by a Black man who reportedly made a racist remark). This is why the coverage was perceived to be slow-walked. Both cases became newsworthy because of their political utility or lack thereof. My initial argument stands: the fury over the Zarutska case was about the perceived attempt to downplay a narrative that made "their side" look bad. The media's visible selectivity is precisely why people are driven to "untrustworthy" sources in the first place.

by radlad 1y ago

dijit 1y ago

There's just me and you here, nobody is reading this thread anymore. I think you don't have an answer for what I'm saying because your mind has gone into "I am attacked, must defend myself" mode - and this is because you've been told to believe that only villains are talking about Iryna, and only Hero's are talking about Jordan. I'm not attacking you, and I am curious. To me Iryna Zarutska is newsworthy, in all the ways I explained. Jordan Neely was publicised widely despite it being much less harrowing and random; so I'm genuinely curious as to why. This isn't a "gotcha". Help me understand how you reconcile this - or if you don't, then fair play and I hope you at least understand that you are not immune to propaganda either.

radlad 1y ago
> I think you don't have an answer for what I'm saying because your mind has gone into "I am attacked, must defend myself" mode - and this is because you've been told to believe that only villains are talking about Iryna, and only Hero's are talking about Jordan. No, my problem is your presumption - even here - that I am brainwashed when we were having a logical, rational conversation. I'm incredibly disappointed in you and I really hope you change your tune. This isn't what I expect from you, honestly.
- dijit 1y ago
  I do think that you're watching a lot of left leaning media and that you're being nudged to think a certain way. Let's not go so far as to claim "brainwash". You can prove me wrong immediately by supplying me with an answer. I'm not disappointed in you, but I will be if you can't step back and assess yourself critically. I do it all the time. That's why I don't care about "not towing the line" for the left; while being a dyed in the wool lefty. (at least by UK standards).
  - radlad 1y ago
    The problem isn't the question - which I have answered you on elsewhere - it's that you're not engaging from a place of curiosity and understanding. This isn't how I know you to be and it's really quite sad. (I also don't watch any news media - on YouTube or TV.) You ignored the bulk of what I wrote, and responded with a one-sentence question, and then went on to tell me that I only have these beliefs because my propagandists want it to be so. This isn't knowable and it's a gross accusation I haven't made about you, despite how easy it is to make. The irony of your own comment here is disgusting.
    - dijit 1y ago
      You're disappointed. I'm disgusting. Lot's of name calling and appeals to emotion. But it seems, you haven't accused me of being wrong, I didn't engage with the bulk of your comment because it's completely irrelevant and factually inaccurate in many places, so there's no point in going down the path of arguing details when there's a clear and obvious double standard that we could talk about instead - one that gets to the meat of the issue- if it's not newsworthy as you claimed. So yeah, I think we're done here. Clearly you're not able to reconcile these situations, and to be clear: you haven't answered me like you claimed. All that has been proven here today is that you cannot think impartially across political lines at things on a human level.
      - radlad 1y ago
        I am disappointed, yes - this is a feeling, attributed to me. What you did is disgusting - not you, please don't warp words. Where is the name calling? Yes, we're done here. You are criticizing me for not answering a question - which I answered, off HN - when you ignored the bulk of what I wrote. Your casual dismissal here doesn't resolve that. Look in the mirror.
        dijit 1y ago
        I think you're still missing the main point, and the Daniel Penny case perfectly illustrates it. You're arguing that statistically, a number of deaths from random attacks or involving mental illness occur every day, which is true for a country the size of the US. But newsworthiness is not based on raw numbers; it's based on narrative friction. The Daniel Penny case became a national flashpoint not because a man died, but because it created a political crisis for the media and political establishment. The victim was Black, the assailant was a white former Marine, and the incident raised questions about public safety and vigilantism in a major Democratic city. This was a story that fit the national, race-and-politics-driven script, so it received instant, wall-to-wall coverage, and a $2.9 million legal defense fund was raised internationally. The Iryna Zarutska case created a different kind of political crisis; one that did not fit the pre-approved progressive script and was potentially "toxic" for the establishment's narrative (an innocent white refugee killed by a Black man who reportedly made a racist remark). This is why the coverage was perceived to be slow-walked. Both cases became newsworthy because of their political utility or lack thereof. My initial argument stands: the fury over the Zarutska case was about the perceived attempt to downplay a narrative that made "their side" look bad. The media's visible selectivity is precisely why people are driven to "untrustworthy" sources in the first place.