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They pay for themeslves when compared to your bill prices. They absolutely don't pay for themselves when compared with actual market prices for electricity gene
by pyrale 1y ago
They pay for themeslves when compared to your bill prices. They absolutely don't pay for themselves when compared with actual market prices for electricity generation.
Your bill is priced that way so that you can have predictable price for what you consume. That means sometimes markets electricity at zero, but you'll pay the full contract price. Other times, electricity is _much_ more expensive than your contract, and, likewise, you'll pay a fixed price.
That fixed price is not competitive with balcony solar because it pays for services that balcony solar doesn't provide. That means that on average, your solar panels produce electricity when electricity is cheap for your utility provider, and when they don't, electricity is on average (but not always) more expensive.
The logical consequence of this is that your contract is going to become more expensive, because you use your solar when it would be profitable for your utility, and you draw from the grid when it's unprofitable to them.
Another alternative would be the end of fixed cost contracts, where balcony solar users would have to pay market price + subscription for their electricity. If that was the case, balcony solar users would probably spare cents during sunny weekends, and get hammered during winter workdays when there is no wind.
edit: just checked the data, in August, Germany's prices at noon hit 0€ 17 days. On the other hand, prices at 18h soared above 100€/MWh every single day, and above 150€ 10 days in the month. In Sepetember, prices at noon hit zero 14 days.
Another (wind-related this time) example, market electricity prices this weekend were negative most of the time (with a tiny 4€ peak) for 40h straight.
- ivanche 1y agoIs it even possible for a private person to pay market price instead of a fixed price?
- pyrale 1y agoMarket price + VAT + a subscription paying for the grid and utility's benefits, yes. I believe that already exists in Nordic countries, I had heard of it in Sweden ([1] says 10% of the population uses it) and Norway ([2] quotes 75% of the population). [1]: https://swedenherald.com/article/so-you-should-think-about-electricity-agreements https://swedenherald.com/article/so-you-should-think-about-e... [2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666955223000357 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266695522...
- Tepix 1y agoPerhaps as a consumer i don't want the risk of these fluctuating prices. See what happened in Texas… That said, I do have 2kWh of battery for my balcony solar (it cost only a few hundred euros and prices are coming down even further), so I can spread the usage of the generated power over a longer timespan, not just during peak sunshine. Of course, balcony solar is only for small installations. For home owners, you'll probably want something like 10+ kWp of solar panels and 10+ kWh of battery. Both of which are no longer very expensive(§). Once enough households have this, we only need those gas power stations for those rather rare periods where there is neither wind nor sun. We can also use EVs as batteries for the grid once V2G finally arrives (that's something the big utilities are stalling). -- (§) See what CATL is doing: $40 per kWh in the near future: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/08/catl-sodium-ion-batteries-lower-cost-than-lithium-ion-batteries.html https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/08/catl-sodium-ion-batter...
- pyrale 1y agoI am not blaming you as an agent in this system, trying to optimize your bill. You probably made the right choice for yourself. What I'm saying is that the consequence of your action will be to rise the price electricity for those without a balcony (that includes industrial users), which is a very bad systemic outcome. This outcome should have been avoided by system-wide policymaking, not by a selfless act from you. > that's something the big utilities are stalling V2G is an extremely complex thing to set up in reality, you don't need a conspiracy to explain why it's not around the corner. Just like you don't need to involve big oil to explain why fusion power is likely not happening tomorrow.
- Tepix 1y agoWhat about cheap batteries?
- pyrale 1y agoCheap anything is great. Aside from that, that would probably require a complete change in the way Germany subsidizes its energy sector, and probably harm to some private companies that benefits from these private companies. I don't really see it happening soon, but who knows?