3 ms·

This article, from my reading, is separating this particular behaviour from normal law enforcement behaviour, and within that space of difference is the problem

This article, from my reading, is separating this particular behaviour from normal law enforcement behaviour, and within that space of difference is the problem. It is a problem of recent creation.

actionfromafar 1y ago
Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police.
- throw0101a 1y ago
  > Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police. Recent observation I came across: folks like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers stopped marching ever since the ICE raids started.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    I suppose Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are now largely split in two groups - the first putting on an ICE mask and beating people up, and the other group cheering with a beer in front of Fox News.
bko 1y ago
'democracy' is used 4 times. Arguments like this: >But as I said, this isn’t about crime. It’s about paranoid conspiracy theories and an attempt to dismantle democracy. Most people don't think of 'normal law enforcement', they just see crime, people in the country illegally and others trying to make law enforcements job harder. They don't care about these types of arguments about how this is different from "normal" law enforcement. You can care about these arguments , and a small percentage of people do, but if you want to be persuasive to the overwhelming majority, you have to put it in concrete terms how more police and law enforcement is actually bad.
- BLKNSLVR 1y ago
  So, you're just saying the article isn't persuasive to normies? I'm OK with that sentiment of yours, but I'm also OK with the article itself and the direction it implies this administration is going. Normies don't persuade easy, that's why they're normies. Trump has worked out how to persuade them: by lying hyperbolically and providing the 'circus' of the bread and circus method. But it's a dark circus, and its involuntary audience are only those already lost to Trump.
  - bko 1y ago
    > Normies don't persuade easy, that's why they're normies That's where I disagree with you. Normies persuade very easily. Just give them a better life. Tell them you'll make their life materially better and they'll be persuaded to support it. See those tents on the street? I'll get rid of them. Don't like to step over needles? I'll clean it up. Are you annoyed by having stores put shampoo behind lock and key? I'll start arresting and prosecuting the <1% of people stealing.
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      Or you know, lie that you'll give them a better life. Take control of all branches of government and keep lying. Works fine in Russia.
- HankStallone 1y ago
  "Democracy" in these discussions increasingly just means the 21st-century bureaucratic status quo. It no longer has anything to do with antiquated notions like "the will of the people." If the people want something different, they're trying to dismantle democracy and should be ignored and given what the managerial class knows is best for them. Persuading the voters is seen as a last resort, a distasteful task that really shouldn't be necessary, if we could just get the right systems in place to keep them pacified and voting for more of the same.
  - sickofparadox 1y ago

This article, from my reading, is separating this particular behaviour from normal law enforcement behaviour, and within that space of difference is the problem. It is a problem of recent creation.

actionfromafar 1y ago

Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police.

throw0101a 1y ago
> Exactly. The police may or may not be good, but these raids are like the brownshirts in Germany. Not regular police. Recent observation I came across: folks like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers stopped marching ever since the ICE raids started.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  I suppose Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are now largely split in two groups - the first putting on an ICE mask and beating people up, and the other group cheering with a beer in front of Fox News.

bko 1y ago

'democracy' is used 4 times. Arguments like this: >But as I said, this isn’t about crime. It’s about paranoid conspiracy theories and an attempt to dismantle democracy. Most people don't think of 'normal law enforcement', they just see crime, people in the country illegally and others trying to make law enforcements job harder. They don't care about these types of arguments about how this is different from "normal" law enforcement. You can care about these arguments , and a small percentage of people do, but if you want to be persuasive to the overwhelming majority, you have to put it in concrete terms how more police and law enforcement is actually bad.

BLKNSLVR 1y ago
So, you're just saying the article isn't persuasive to normies? I'm OK with that sentiment of yours, but I'm also OK with the article itself and the direction it implies this administration is going. Normies don't persuade easy, that's why they're normies. Trump has worked out how to persuade them: by lying hyperbolically and providing the 'circus' of the bread and circus method. But it's a dark circus, and its involuntary audience are only those already lost to Trump.
- bko 1y ago
  > Normies don't persuade easy, that's why they're normies That's where I disagree with you. Normies persuade very easily. Just give them a better life. Tell them you'll make their life materially better and they'll be persuaded to support it. See those tents on the street? I'll get rid of them. Don't like to step over needles? I'll clean it up. Are you annoyed by having stores put shampoo behind lock and key? I'll start arresting and prosecuting the <1% of people stealing.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Or you know, lie that you'll give them a better life. Take control of all branches of government and keep lying. Works fine in Russia.
HankStallone 1y ago
"Democracy" in these discussions increasingly just means the 21st-century bureaucratic status quo. It no longer has anything to do with antiquated notions like "the will of the people." If the people want something different, they're trying to dismantle democracy and should be ignored and given what the managerial class knows is best for them. Persuading the voters is seen as a last resort, a distasteful task that really shouldn't be necessary, if we could just get the right systems in place to keep them pacified and voting for more of the same.
- sickofparadox 1y ago