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> As long as elections are still a thing over there, even if Trump gets a third term I think you misunderstand. The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitut

by lapcat 1y ago

> As long as elections are still a thing over there, even if Trump gets a third term I think you misunderstand. The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitution. Trump cannot run for a third term. The only way he remains in power after his second term is if the Constitution is abolished, in which case "continuing to wait it out" is futile. It would be equivalent to this: > Trump declares himself king (or whatever other fancy word)

Telaneo 1y ago
> The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitution. I have no faith Trump gives a shit about the constitution. He and his goons can amend and screw around till they find something that gives them what they want. So long as there's a somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's president, the fire burning under Europe's bottom isn't burning hot enough for them to move. Unless there's literally no election, not even the pretence of democracy, I can't imagine anyone doing anything much different from what they're doing now. If they were going to, they'd have already done it.
- lapcat 1y ago
  > I have no faith Trump gives a shit about the constitution. I didn't say he does. But again, abolishing the Constitution is the only path to staying in power. > He and his goons can amend No, they can't. Have you studied the amendment process? > So long as there's a somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's president That's the point. There can't be another somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's President.
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    If they can't amend, they can bypass. Or ignore. If people go out to vote for Donald Trump, and he wins the election for a third term, or someone just says the right combination of words that wills him into being president for a third time, regardless of the constitution, that'll be legitimate enough. I have very little faith in both the US and Europe.
    - lapcat 1y ago
      > If they can't amend, they can bypass. Or ignore. Yes, that was my point! Again, the only path to remaining in power is to completely bypass or ignore the Consitution. There is no legal means, not even nominally. > If people go out to vote for Donald Trump, and he wins the election for a third term This is explicitly, clearly unconstitutional. > or someone just says the right combination of words that wills him into being president for a third time This is just hand-waving. > regardless of the constitution, that'll be legitimate enough. How will it be legitimate at all? > I have very little faith in both the US and Europe. You also appear to have very little knowledge of the US.
      - Telaneo 1y ago
        What's constitutional is what 5 out 9 people believe to be constitutional, and the bench is very stacked. He's already above the law. My point isn't really about the US. My point is that Europe will do naught more than what they're doing now unless the US democracy compleatly collapses. Even if the elections are made and choose a candidate that can't legally be elected, him being elected still has a shred of democracy that means it isn't totally gone, and thus probably not gone enough for Europe to actually wake up. It won't be a free and fair election if that's the way things go, but it will be an election, and I believe that will be enough.
        lapcat 1y ago
        > What's constitutional is what 5 out 9 people believe to be constitutional This is not entirely accurate. If 5 Supreme Court justices declared that Trump is king, or that Christianity is the official religion of the United States, that doesn't make it Constutional. There are certain actions that are just obviously, blatantly unconstitutional, and everyone would recognize it, regardless of what the justices say. At a certain point, the justices themselves would be deemed to be ignoring the Constitution. The declaration may spawn another civil war, but we're not stupid enough to think, "Oh, hey, a king is actually Constitutional", and I doubt that Europeans are stupid enough to believe that either.
  - cmurf 1y ago
    Discourse on Voluntary Servitude: Why People Enslave Themselves to Authority By E. LaBoetie (Philosopher and Writer, 1530-1563) https://billkatz.substack.com/p/discourse-on-voluntary-servitude https://billkatz.substack.com/p/discourse-on-voluntary-servi... But if not one thing is yielded to him, if without any violence he is simply not obeyed, he becomes naked and undone and nothing, just as when the root receives no nourishment, the branch withers and dies.
rufus_foreman 1y ago
>> The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitution. Trump cannot run for a third term. The Constitution says "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice". It doesn't say no person shall serve as President more than twice. Gerald Ford was never elected to the office of the President. He was never even elected to the office of Vice President. Yet he served as President. One scenario: Trump runs as a Vice President on a ticket with someone else as President. 5 minutes after being inaugurated, the President resigns, making Trump President for a third term. I'm sure clever people can think of other scenarios.
- lapcat 1y ago
  > One scenario: Trump runs as a Vice President on a ticket with someone else as President. 5 minutes after being inaugurated, the President resigns, making Trump President for a third term. You can conceive of imaginary scenarios, but that's not going to happen. Nobody who wins the Presidency is going to resign. If that's the scenario you're afraid of, it's just silly. I would note that Republican Senators are reluctant even to bypass the current Democratic filibuster shutting down the government. As much as Republican politicians are deferential to Trump, they still have their own political ambitions. Some of them are biding their time in the hope that they themselves can become the next President.
  - HaZeust 1y ago
    >"Nobody who wins the Presidency is going to resign" I dunno, man. People are already putting their name next to a "NAY" vote for the President, specifically when it comes to releasing files regarding the most prolific child sex trafficker of our time; who likely had such connections to the President. Being masochistic enough for someone to do that, and to resign as president, are less steps away than you think.
- rstuart4133 1y ago
  The 12th amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States". But what that means, or indeed any part of the constitution means, is determined by the Supreme Count of the day.

by lapcat 1y ago

Telaneo 1y ago

> The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitution. I have no faith Trump gives a shit about the constitution. He and his goons can amend and screw around till they find something that gives them what they want. So long as there's a somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's president, the fire burning under Europe's bottom isn't burning hot enough for them to move. Unless there's literally no election, not even the pretence of democracy, I can't imagine anyone doing anything much different from what they're doing now. If they were going to, they'd have already done it.

lapcat 1y ago
> I have no faith Trump gives a shit about the constitution. I didn't say he does. But again, abolishing the Constitution is the only path to staying in power. > He and his goons can amend No, they can't. Have you studied the amendment process? > So long as there's a somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's president That's the point. There can't be another somewhat legitimate election that says Trump's President.
- Telaneo 1y ago
  If they can't amend, they can bypass. Or ignore. If people go out to vote for Donald Trump, and he wins the election for a third term, or someone just says the right combination of words that wills him into being president for a third time, regardless of the constitution, that'll be legitimate enough. I have very little faith in both the US and Europe.
  - lapcat 1y ago
    > If they can't amend, they can bypass. Or ignore. Yes, that was my point! Again, the only path to remaining in power is to completely bypass or ignore the Consitution. There is no legal means, not even nominally. > If people go out to vote for Donald Trump, and he wins the election for a third term This is explicitly, clearly unconstitutional. > or someone just says the right combination of words that wills him into being president for a third time This is just hand-waving. > regardless of the constitution, that'll be legitimate enough. How will it be legitimate at all? > I have very little faith in both the US and Europe. You also appear to have very little knowledge of the US.
    - Telaneo 1y ago
      What's constitutional is what 5 out 9 people believe to be constitutional, and the bench is very stacked. He's already above the law. My point isn't really about the US. My point is that Europe will do naught more than what they're doing now unless the US democracy compleatly collapses. Even if the elections are made and choose a candidate that can't legally be elected, him being elected still has a shred of democracy that means it isn't totally gone, and thus probably not gone enough for Europe to actually wake up. It won't be a free and fair election if that's the way things go, but it will be an election, and I believe that will be enough.
      - lapcat 1y ago
        > What's constitutional is what 5 out 9 people believe to be constitutional This is not entirely accurate. If 5 Supreme Court justices declared that Trump is king, or that Christianity is the official religion of the United States, that doesn't make it Constutional. There are certain actions that are just obviously, blatantly unconstitutional, and everyone would recognize it, regardless of what the justices say. At a certain point, the justices themselves would be deemed to be ignoring the Constitution. The declaration may spawn another civil war, but we're not stupid enough to think, "Oh, hey, a king is actually Constitutional", and I doubt that Europeans are stupid enough to believe that either.
- cmurf 1y ago
  Discourse on Voluntary Servitude: Why People Enslave Themselves to Authority By E. LaBoetie (Philosopher and Writer, 1530-1563) https://billkatz.substack.com/p/discourse-on-voluntary-servitude https://billkatz.substack.com/p/discourse-on-voluntary-servi... But if not one thing is yielded to him, if without any violence he is simply not obeyed, he becomes naked and undone and nothing, just as when the root receives no nourishment, the branch withers and dies.

rufus_foreman 1y ago

>> The Presidency is term-limited by the Constitution. Trump cannot run for a third term. The Constitution says "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice". It doesn't say no person shall serve as President more than twice. Gerald Ford was never elected to the office of the President. He was never even elected to the office of Vice President. Yet he served as President. One scenario: Trump runs as a Vice President on a ticket with someone else as President. 5 minutes after being inaugurated, the President resigns, making Trump President for a third term. I'm sure clever people can think of other scenarios.

lapcat 1y ago
> One scenario: Trump runs as a Vice President on a ticket with someone else as President. 5 minutes after being inaugurated, the President resigns, making Trump President for a third term. You can conceive of imaginary scenarios, but that's not going to happen. Nobody who wins the Presidency is going to resign. If that's the scenario you're afraid of, it's just silly. I would note that Republican Senators are reluctant even to bypass the current Democratic filibuster shutting down the government. As much as Republican politicians are deferential to Trump, they still have their own political ambitions. Some of them are biding their time in the hope that they themselves can become the next President.
- HaZeust 1y ago
  >"Nobody who wins the Presidency is going to resign" I dunno, man. People are already putting their name next to a "NAY" vote for the President, specifically when it comes to releasing files regarding the most prolific child sex trafficker of our time; who likely had such connections to the President. Being masochistic enough for someone to do that, and to resign as president, are less steps away than you think.
rstuart4133 1y ago
The 12th amendment says "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States". But what that means, or indeed any part of the constitution means, is determined by the Supreme Count of the day.