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> The trend in Europe started decades ago. In the intelligence community there is very little doubt that russia has been doing this for decades. Yes, there is

> The trend in Europe started decades ago. In the intelligence community there is very little doubt that russia has been doing this for decades. Yes, there is a home grown component as well but it would not be nearly as large if not for all this meddling. > Immediately labelling discontent as "xenophobia" is exactly what I mentioned in my previous comments, a denial of a reality and of people's concerns. It shuts down debate and only fuels discontent. People are effectively told that they have no choice and if they don't like it they are wrong and racist. Yes.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
That is plain delusion, really. Economic and, especially, immigration issues are fully home-made. Again, Russia is only using them with very small effects. This will end badly because of this denial of reality and denial of people's voices, not because of Russia.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    I have flagged this comment because of the gratuitous insult and misrepresentation. Sad. "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.*"
- jacquesm 1y ago
  > Economic and, especially, immigration issues are fully home-made. This is incredibly short-sighted and is in fact exactly such a denial of reality that you accuse others of. The world is divided into poorer regions and wealthier regions, and regions that are peaceful and ones that are less peaceful. Then there is oppression based on race, creed, sexual preference and a whole raft of other things. As long as that is the case there will be people that want to move away from where they were born. You are claiming to speak for a group, but in fact you are just speaking for yourself, and poorly reasoned and supported at that.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    Odd how the replies to my comments seem to quickly swerve into ad hominem attacks and irrelevant points... Perhaps that's QED. The world is what it is. That has nothing to do with the immigration policies in Europe, which are chosen by the governments not imposed on them, and nothing to do with the growing range of issues in Europe. I am not claiming to speak for anyone, by the way. I only acknowledge the election results and trends across Europe and how those signs of public opinion are met. Have a nice one, guys.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      > The world is what it is. That has nothing to do with the immigration policies in Europe, which are chosen by the governments not imposed on them, and nothing to do with the growing range of issues in Europe. It does however, have everything to do with centuries of European imperialism. We shaped the world to be the way it is. It didn't happen by accident.
      - jacquesm 1y ago
        It is interesting how few people are willing to admit that these are problems in large part of our own making. If there are two places that are both poor and one decides to plunder the other and becomes fabulously wealthy because they are able to turn what they plundered into wealth more effectively than the places that they plundered then it stands to reason that at some point the citizens of the places that were plundered would like to move their residence to the wealthier place. Long term sustainable policies that do not result in such an imbalance require a longer term view and possibly lower short term profits. In fact, the United States was on that path until Trump took over. Mexico was slowly getting wealthier and people were already moving back because it was a more viable alternative. Now of course all that progress has been destroyed but it was really working, and I'm pretty sure that it could have been accelerated.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Worse, because after we left many of those countries to their own "freedom", the imperialism kept going by having big corporations sponsor the new goverments. Our goverments could do better fixing the ways of the past, instead it is much easier to complain about immigration, from countries politians themselves would not freely chose to live on, other than on big monthly check from one of those corporations.

mytailorisrich 1y ago

That is plain delusion, really. Economic and, especially, immigration issues are fully home-made. Again, Russia is only using them with very small effects. This will end badly because of this denial of reality and denial of people's voices, not because of Russia.

saubeidl 1y ago
[flagged]
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  I have flagged this comment because of the gratuitous insult and misrepresentation. Sad. "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.*"
jacquesm 1y ago
> Economic and, especially, immigration issues are fully home-made. This is incredibly short-sighted and is in fact exactly such a denial of reality that you accuse others of. The world is divided into poorer regions and wealthier regions, and regions that are peaceful and ones that are less peaceful. Then there is oppression based on race, creed, sexual preference and a whole raft of other things. As long as that is the case there will be people that want to move away from where they were born. You are claiming to speak for a group, but in fact you are just speaking for yourself, and poorly reasoned and supported at that.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  Odd how the replies to my comments seem to quickly swerve into ad hominem attacks and irrelevant points... Perhaps that's QED. The world is what it is. That has nothing to do with the immigration policies in Europe, which are chosen by the governments not imposed on them, and nothing to do with the growing range of issues in Europe. I am not claiming to speak for anyone, by the way. I only acknowledge the election results and trends across Europe and how those signs of public opinion are met. Have a nice one, guys.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    > The world is what it is. That has nothing to do with the immigration policies in Europe, which are chosen by the governments not imposed on them, and nothing to do with the growing range of issues in Europe. It does however, have everything to do with centuries of European imperialism. We shaped the world to be the way it is. It didn't happen by accident.
    - jacquesm 1y ago
      It is interesting how few people are willing to admit that these are problems in large part of our own making. If there are two places that are both poor and one decides to plunder the other and becomes fabulously wealthy because they are able to turn what they plundered into wealth more effectively than the places that they plundered then it stands to reason that at some point the citizens of the places that were plundered would like to move their residence to the wealthier place. Long term sustainable policies that do not result in such an imbalance require a longer term view and possibly lower short term profits. In fact, the United States was on that path until Trump took over. Mexico was slowly getting wealthier and people were already moving back because it was a more viable alternative. Now of course all that progress has been destroyed but it was really working, and I'm pretty sure that it could have been accelerated.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Worse, because after we left many of those countries to their own "freedom", the imperialism kept going by having big corporations sponsor the new goverments. Our goverments could do better fixing the ways of the past, instead it is much easier to complain about immigration, from countries politians themselves would not freely chose to live on, other than on big monthly check from one of those corporations.