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For reference, global energy consumption is about 180,000 TWh[1]. So while the numbers in this article are large, they're not a significant fraction of the tota
by qnleigh 1y ago
For reference, global energy consumption is about 180,000 TWh[1]. So while the numbers in this article are large, they're not a significant fraction of the total. Traveling and buying things are probably a much bigger part of your carbon footprint. For example:
- 25 LLM queries: ~8.5 Wh
- driving one mile: ~250-1000 Wh
- one glass bottle: ~1000 Wh [2]
- a new laptop: ~600,000 Wh [3]
- round-trip flight from LA to Tokyo: ~1,000,000 Wh
[1] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption
[2] https://www.beveragedaily.com/Article/2008/03/17/study-finds-glass-bottling-produces-similar-carbon-emissions-to-pet/ https://www.beveragedaily.com/Article/2008/03/17/study-finds...
[3] https://www.foxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/handprint-report-laptops-2023-eng.pdf https://www.foxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/handprint-...
- ugurs 1y agoWithout knowing the cumulative amount of energy consumption it is not a fair comparison. If there are one billion llm sessions every day, it is still a lot of energy.
- kurthr 1y agoNo, not really. A billion people (15% of the population) drive more than a mile a day. Well over 100 million laptops are sold every year. These are easy numbers to look up. Just look at your own life and see how much of each you would use.
- globular-toast 1y agoSo do LLMs mean fewer people have to drive a mile every day?
- exitb 1y agoThese don't have to be dependent to be meaningful.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoI think the point is that we all need to use less energy, we need to avoid flights from LA to Tokyo where possible, not using the energy use as an excuse to use even more energy.
- phil21 1y ago> we all need to use less energy We need cheaper and cleaner forms of energy. More efficient uses of energy. I do not agree that we "all" need to use less energy overall. Energy use tracks wealth pretty closely, and manufacturing/creating things tends to be energy intensive. The more cheap clean energy we make available, the more novel uses will be found for it.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago> We need cheaper and cleaner forms of energy. More efficient uses of energy. Yep that's the dream, but it's not what I have coming out of my wall right now. > Energy use tracks wealth pretty closely, I'm guessing the majority of users on this site are in the 1% globally so it seems reasonable to consider what's produced/manufactured for us and what services like these that we're using > The more cheap clean energy we make available, the more novel uses will be found for it. That will be a brilliant future but it's not the reality today.
- exitb 1y agoIf you want to meaningfully cut your energy usage, you need to identify its biggest sinks. 8 Wh per day is about as much as an idle charger you don't bother to remove from the outlet. I've yet to hear about anyone evaporating lakes with a charger, yet we almost all leave them plugged it. It would be better to not use this energy, but it won't move the needle either way.
- pixl97 1y agoDo we need to use less energy, or do we need to use less fossil fuel based energy?
- qnleigh 1y agoYes quoting energy use per query isn't the full picture, though it is still a useful benchmark for understanding the relative impact of one's use as an individual. As for cumulative impact, the ieee article gives an estimate of 347 TWh per year by 2030, which is still a very small fraction of global energy consumption today.
- s0rce 1y ago180,000 TWh total since the start of time or per year?
- kurthr 1y agoIt was 170,000 TWh annually in 2021.
- s0rce 1y agoIsn't it easer to say average 20 TW
- datadrivenangel 1y agoMore succinct yes, but talking in units per year is often easier to reason about.
- Gigachad 1y agoModel usage seems quite small compared to training. I can run models on my phone which took millions of hours of GPU training time to create. Although this might change with the new AI slop tiktok apps every company is rushing to create now.
- dayjaby 1y agoWhat about LLM training? What about training all the discarded or unused LLMs?
- deaux 1y agoFor reference, this is based on figures given by Sam Altman, which are worth as much as going to random.org and asking it for a number between 0 and 100 to use as Wh per LLM query. Scratch that, the latter is probably more reliable.
- olejorgenb 1y agoHow did you get "one glass bottle: ~1000 Wh"? [2] does not cite energy use, only CO2 emissions
- notjulianjaynes 1y agoNot OP but the EPA has a calculator for estimating emissions to energy consumption. https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gas-equivalencies-calculator https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gas-equivalencies-calc...