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It seems to me like building the fastest EV has nowhere near the complexity of building the fastest ICE car. Way too many moving parts and fine tuning required

It seems to me like building the fastest EV has nowhere near the complexity of building the fastest ICE car. Way too many moving parts and fine tuning required to get an engine to 440Kmh (Chiron SS) than an EV with 4 big motors.

beAbU 1y ago
Yet none of the other mainstream automakers has done so.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  Are they even trying? It seems like the only reason to do this is for publicity. Maybe a manufacturer that's known for their ICE vehicles would want an opportunity to show off their electric vehicle engineering but I don't know any it would make a difference for. US manufacturers even sell electric trucks. It's not like any mainstream manufacturer needs to rebrand to sell electric vehicles.
  - lm28469 1y ago
    > Are they even trying? Nope, probably too busy faking emission results, lobbying at the EU parliament , or designing overpriced mid tier cars in the US
  - ozgrakkurt 1y ago
    Research also might trickle down to production cars. Maybe research for some extreme project has more opportunity to find unexpected improvements compared to more tightly budgeted production research
diarrhea 1y ago
It might indeed be more difficult to push obsolete technology ever further.
AlotOfReading 1y ago
People have been putting engines that powerful in cars since Campbell's blue bird in the 1930s. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it's doable in custom vehicles. The hard bits are connecting that power with the ground long enough to reach speed safely, and storing enough energy to do so. EVs don't solve that.
onlypassingthru 1y ago
Isn't the complexity in storing and and moving the electrons rapidly? Stringing a bunch of 18650s with a copper wire harness won't cut it. You've got to invent some novel chemistries and new materials to pull it off.
- gsnedders 1y ago
  At a battery level it’s very doable — and certainly not as extreme as in most racing applications — it’s just a bunch of trade-offs.
torginus 1y ago
I recommend you watch this video (the channel's pretty good in general): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6DiHOidcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6DiHOidcg While I agree with your statement in broad strokes - I'd reframe it as the same amount of engineering takes you much further in an EV than an ICE car. Considering this, the Chinese really swung for the fences, and what they made here is quite impressive
hengheng 1y ago
Chiron still has that Piëch handwriting on it. It's driveable enough to take your wife to the opera. Full regulatory compliance, low wind noise at high speeds, all that. I don't want to say it is compromised, but it's not as extreme as it could be. The closer ICE comparison would be Koenigsegg (447 kph/278 mph), Hennessy Venom GT (435/270) and SSC Tuatara (455/283, no shenanigans). SSC have reached 295, they were clearly aiming for 300. It's no 308 but it's reasonably close. All these are also relatively small companies with relatively low budgets -- none of the big manufacturers seem interested in top speeds anymore.
unglaublich 1y ago
Which shows that ICEs are a ridiculous choice for performance cars?
- kikimora 1y ago
  No, EV are too heavy. On an actual track they loose to lighter ICE cars since they corner better. Plus for a prolonged race EV might run out of battery.
seydor 1y ago
are we bound to see a huge increase in speed limits as EVs start to dominate?
- pengaru 1y ago
  no
- stavros 1y ago
  The reason we have speed limits isn't because cars can't go any faster, but because they can.
spookie 1y ago
Well, while impressive I would like to see them do a second lap right after or try the Nürburgring (seems they have, way off pace versus ICE cars). One thing many car channels are pointing out is that the car could've reached even better numbers looking at how easily it reached its record pace. I wonder if the bottleneck is the battery. Hell, it supposedly discharges at full power in 2 minutes. (Edit: noting they did the ring)
- ricardobeat 1y ago
  The second fastest lap at the ring, and at least another five records in the top ten, are all EVs: VW ID.R Xiaomi SU7 Ultra Lotus Evija X F-150 Lightning SuperTruck Nio EP9 Ford Transit SuperVan #1 is the Porsche 919 Hybrid. Cars built for straight line speed are rarely fast in a track – you won’t find the Bugattis breaking any fastest lap records either.
  - spookie 1y ago
    You are looking just at EVs. Or some other non road legal list. ICEs have more above it. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
    - ricardobeat 1y ago
      That was from the official Nurburgring page, includes prototype cars. Your list seems to be missing most of those. The slowest from the EV list above is 6:48 for the Ford Supervan.
      - spookie 1y ago
        Ford Supervan is a promotional vehicle. I just wanted to focus on road legal cars. But yes, the link I posted is lacking lots of data. Apologies.
adamhartenz 1y ago
This comment has the same vibe at "football is easy, because the rules are simple". Something is only easy if you don't have to compete with others. If it's "easy" for you, then it is easy for others. So being the best/fastest is hard.
SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
True, if your goal is "the fastest car, period" then you're going to pick the best technology for that. And as of now onwards, that's not Internal Combustion Engines. As you say, there are way too many moving parts in a legacy tech ICE engine.

beAbU 1y ago

Yet none of the other mainstream automakers has done so.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
Are they even trying? It seems like the only reason to do this is for publicity. Maybe a manufacturer that's known for their ICE vehicles would want an opportunity to show off their electric vehicle engineering but I don't know any it would make a difference for. US manufacturers even sell electric trucks. It's not like any mainstream manufacturer needs to rebrand to sell electric vehicles.
- lm28469 1y ago
  > Are they even trying? Nope, probably too busy faking emission results, lobbying at the EU parliament , or designing overpriced mid tier cars in the US
- ozgrakkurt 1y ago
  Research also might trickle down to production cars. Maybe research for some extreme project has more opportunity to find unexpected improvements compared to more tightly budgeted production research

diarrhea 1y ago

It might indeed be more difficult to push obsolete technology ever further.

AlotOfReading 1y ago

People have been putting engines that powerful in cars since Campbell's blue bird in the 1930s. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it's doable in custom vehicles. The hard bits are connecting that power with the ground long enough to reach speed safely, and storing enough energy to do so. EVs don't solve that.

onlypassingthru 1y ago

Isn't the complexity in storing and and moving the electrons rapidly? Stringing a bunch of 18650s with a copper wire harness won't cut it. You've got to invent some novel chemistries and new materials to pull it off.

gsnedders 1y ago
At a battery level it’s very doable — and certainly not as extreme as in most racing applications — it’s just a bunch of trade-offs.

torginus 1y ago

I recommend you watch this video (the channel's pretty good in general): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6DiHOidcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6DiHOidcg While I agree with your statement in broad strokes - I'd reframe it as the same amount of engineering takes you much further in an EV than an ICE car. Considering this, the Chinese really swung for the fences, and what they made here is quite impressive

hengheng 1y ago

Chiron still has that Piëch handwriting on it. It's driveable enough to take your wife to the opera. Full regulatory compliance, low wind noise at high speeds, all that. I don't want to say it is compromised, but it's not as extreme as it could be. The closer ICE comparison would be Koenigsegg (447 kph/278 mph), Hennessy Venom GT (435/270) and SSC Tuatara (455/283, no shenanigans). SSC have reached 295, they were clearly aiming for 300. It's no 308 but it's reasonably close. All these are also relatively small companies with relatively low budgets -- none of the big manufacturers seem interested in top speeds anymore.

unglaublich 1y ago

Which shows that ICEs are a ridiculous choice for performance cars?

kikimora 1y ago
No, EV are too heavy. On an actual track they loose to lighter ICE cars since they corner better. Plus for a prolonged race EV might run out of battery.

seydor 1y ago

are we bound to see a huge increase in speed limits as EVs start to dominate?

pengaru 1y ago
no
stavros 1y ago
The reason we have speed limits isn't because cars can't go any faster, but because they can.

spookie 1y ago

Well, while impressive I would like to see them do a second lap right after or try the Nürburgring (seems they have, way off pace versus ICE cars). One thing many car channels are pointing out is that the car could've reached even better numbers looking at how easily it reached its record pace. I wonder if the bottleneck is the battery. Hell, it supposedly discharges at full power in 2 minutes. (Edit: noting they did the ring)

ricardobeat 1y ago
The second fastest lap at the ring, and at least another five records in the top ten, are all EVs: VW ID.R Xiaomi SU7 Ultra Lotus Evija X F-150 Lightning SuperTruck Nio EP9 Ford Transit SuperVan #1 is the Porsche 919 Hybrid. Cars built for straight line speed are rarely fast in a track – you won’t find the Bugattis breaking any fastest lap records either.
- spookie 1y ago
  You are looking just at EVs. Or some other non road legal list. ICEs have more above it. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
  - ricardobeat 1y ago
    That was from the official Nurburgring page, includes prototype cars. Your list seems to be missing most of those. The slowest from the EV list above is 6:48 for the Ford Supervan.
    - spookie 1y ago
      Ford Supervan is a promotional vehicle. I just wanted to focus on road legal cars. But yes, the link I posted is lacking lots of data. Apologies.

adamhartenz 1y ago

This comment has the same vibe at "football is easy, because the rules are simple". Something is only easy if you don't have to compete with others. If it's "easy" for you, then it is easy for others. So being the best/fastest is hard.

SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago

True, if your goal is "the fastest car, period" then you're going to pick the best technology for that. And as of now onwards, that's not Internal Combustion Engines. As you say, there are way too many moving parts in a legacy tech ICE engine.