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> While I agree this report is BS and xenophobic Examples please? Can you please share where you see BS and/or xenophobia in the original report? Or are you b

by xpe 1y ago

> While I agree this report is BS and xenophobic Examples please? Can you please share where you see BS and/or xenophobia in the original report? Or are you basing your take only on Hartford's analysis? But not even Hartford make any claims of "BS" or xenophobia. It is common throughout history for a nation-state to worry about military and economic competitiveness. Doing so isn't necessarily isn't necessarily xenophobic. Here is how I think of xenophobia, as quoted from Claude (which to be honest, explains it better than Wikipedia or Brittanica, in my opinion): "Xenophobia is fundamentally about irrational fear or hatred of people based on their foreign origin or ethnicity. It targets people and operates through stereotypes, dehumanization, and often cultural or racial prejudice." According to this definition, there is zero xenophobia in the NIST report. (If you disagree, point to an example and show me.) The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values -- but to be clear, this isn't xenophobia at work. What definition of xenophobia are you using? We don't have to use the same exact definition, but you should at least explain yours if you want people to track.

antonvs 1y ago
> Can you please share where you see BS and/or xenophobia in the original report? Here’s an example of irrational fear: “the expanding use of these models may pose a risk to application developers, consumers, and to US national security.” There’s no support for that claim in the report, just vague handwaving at the fact that a freely available open source model doesn’t compare well on all dimensions to the most expensive frontier models. The OP does a good job of explaining why the fear here is irrational. But for the audience this is apparently intended to convince, no support is needed for this fear, because it comes from China. The current president has a long history of publicly stated xenophobia about China, which led to harassment, discrimination, and even attacks on Chinese people partly as a result of his framing of COVID-19 as “the China virus”. A report like this is just part of that propaganda campaign of designating enemies everywhere, even in American cities. > The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values If only that were true. But nothing the current US administration is doing in fact achieves that, or even attempts to do so, and this report is no exception. The absolutely most charitable thing that could be said about this report is that it’s a weak attempt at smearing non-US competition. There’s no serious analysis of the merits. The only reason to read this report is to laugh at how blatantly incompetent or misguided the entire chain of command that led to it is.
- xpe 1y ago
  >> (me) The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values > (antonvs) If only that were true. Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission. In so doing, you were not replying to my actual claim. If you read my sentence in context, I hope it is clear that I'm talking about the implicit values baked into the report. When I write that NIST promotes certain ideals, I'm talking about its mission, stated here [1]: > To promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life. This is explained using different words in a NIST FAQ [2]: > Everything in science and technology is based on measurement. Everything we use every day relies upon accurate measurements to work. NIST ensures the measurement system of the U.S. meets the measurement needs of every aspect of our lives from manufacturing to communications to healthcare. In science, the ability to measure something and determine its value — and to do so in a repeatable and reliable way — is essential. NIST leads the world in measurement science, so U.S. businesses can innovate in a fair marketplace. We use measurement science to address new challenges ranging from cybersecurity to cancer research. It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values (such as free markets, free ideas, innovation, etc). Reasonable people can disagree on the extent to which NIST achieves this mission, but I don't think reasonable people can deny that NIST largely aims to achieve this mission. My take on the Trump and his administration: Both are exceptionally corrupt by historical standards. They have acted in ways that undermine many of the goals of NIST. But one has to be careful to distinguish elected leaders and appointees from career civil servants. We have to include both (and their incentives, worldviews, and motivations) when making sense of what is happening. [1]: https://www.nist.gov/about-nist https://www.nist.gov/about-nist [2]: https://www.nist.gov/nmi https://www.nist.gov/nmi
  - antonvs 1y ago
    > Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission I'm not talking about NIST in general, just about this report, which most certainly does not, as you claimed, "implicitly promote ideals of western democratic rule over communist values." Quite the contrary: it's a blatant and transparent continuation of the current administration's assault on those Western democratic values. > It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values That was true in the past. You seem to be having difficulty accepting the new reality, even defending it. Which is sad to witness.

by xpe 1y ago

antonvs 1y ago

> Can you please share where you see BS and/or xenophobia in the original report? Here’s an example of irrational fear: “the expanding use of these models may pose a risk to application developers, consumers, and to US national security.” There’s no support for that claim in the report, just vague handwaving at the fact that a freely available open source model doesn’t compare well on all dimensions to the most expensive frontier models. The OP does a good job of explaining why the fear here is irrational. But for the audience this is apparently intended to convince, no support is needed for this fear, because it comes from China. The current president has a long history of publicly stated xenophobia about China, which led to harassment, discrimination, and even attacks on Chinese people partly as a result of his framing of COVID-19 as “the China virus”. A report like this is just part of that propaganda campaign of designating enemies everywhere, even in American cities. > The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values If only that were true. But nothing the current US administration is doing in fact achieves that, or even attempts to do so, and this report is no exception. The absolutely most charitable thing that could be said about this report is that it’s a weak attempt at smearing non-US competition. There’s no serious analysis of the merits. The only reason to read this report is to laugh at how blatantly incompetent or misguided the entire chain of command that led to it is.

xpe 1y ago
>> (me) The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values > (antonvs) If only that were true. Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission. In so doing, you were not replying to my actual claim. If you read my sentence in context, I hope it is clear that I'm talking about the implicit values baked into the report. When I write that NIST promotes certain ideals, I'm talking about its mission, stated here [1]: > To promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life. This is explained using different words in a NIST FAQ [2]: > Everything in science and technology is based on measurement. Everything we use every day relies upon accurate measurements to work. NIST ensures the measurement system of the U.S. meets the measurement needs of every aspect of our lives from manufacturing to communications to healthcare. In science, the ability to measure something and determine its value — and to do so in a repeatable and reliable way — is essential. NIST leads the world in measurement science, so U.S. businesses can innovate in a fair marketplace. We use measurement science to address new challenges ranging from cybersecurity to cancer research. It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values (such as free markets, free ideas, innovation, etc). Reasonable people can disagree on the extent to which NIST achieves this mission, but I don't think reasonable people can deny that NIST largely aims to achieve this mission. My take on the Trump and his administration: Both are exceptionally corrupt by historical standards. They have acted in ways that undermine many of the goals of NIST. But one has to be careful to distinguish elected leaders and appointees from career civil servants. We have to include both (and their incentives, worldviews, and motivations) when making sense of what is happening. [1]: https://www.nist.gov/about-nist https://www.nist.gov/about-nist [2]: https://www.nist.gov/nmi https://www.nist.gov/nmi
- antonvs 1y ago
  > Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission I'm not talking about NIST in general, just about this report, which most certainly does not, as you claimed, "implicitly promote ideals of western democratic rule over communist values." Quite the contrary: it's a blatant and transparent continuation of the current administration's assault on those Western democratic values. > It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values That was true in the past. You seem to be having difficulty accepting the new reality, even defending it. Which is sad to witness.