4 ms·

Kyber is not known to be weaker than any other well used algorithm.

by mjg59 1y ago

timschmidt 1y ago
Another strawman. No one in this thread said Kyber was known to be weaker. Just that elliptic curve cryptography is well tested, better understood as a consequence of being used in production longer, and that removing it opens up transmissions made without both to attacks on the less widely used algorithm which would not otherwise be successful. It really seems like you're trying not to hear what's been said.
- anonym29 1y ago
  As a friendly reminder, you're arguing with an apologist for the security-flawed approach that the NSA advocates for and wants. There are absolutely NSA technical and psychological operations personnel who are on HN not just while at work, but for work, and this site is entirely in-scope for them to use rhetoric to try to advance their agenda, even in bad faith. I'm not saying mjg59 is an NSA propagandist / covert influencer / astroturf / sockpuppet account, but they sure fail the duck test for sounding and acting like one.
  - timschmidt 1y ago
    Appreciated. I'll only note that if this is the kind of resistance DJB encountered when raising his objections it goes a long way toward explaining why he might choose to publish his complaints publicly and lends additional credibility to his position. It has certainly affected my perception of the individuals involved.
    - skininthegame25 1y ago
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    - skininthegame25 1y ago
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  - tux3 1y ago
    Matthew Garrett is not a secret NSA propagandist. People can reasonably disagree with the djb position. His blog posts are notoriously divisive, and that doesn't make everyone on the other side a secret NSA influencer. Please assume good faith, or discussions turn into personal attacks and wild accusations.
    - anonym29 1y ago
      I didn't claim mjg59 is NSA. I said their arguments function like NSA advocacy. Whether that's by design or coincidence doesn't change the effect. When someone consistently advances positions that serve surveillance state interests using procedural deflection to avoid security substance, noting that pattern isn't a personal attack - it's public, transparent, community-led threat assessment. Pointing out behavior that is functionally indistinguishable from NSA discourse manipulation in a community technical forum - in a conversation about NSA discourse manipulation in community technical forums, no less - isn't a personal attack, it's a social IDS system firing off an alert for a known-bad signature detection.
      - tux3 1y ago
        The effect of claiming that people act like NSA propagandists is indistinguishable from claiming they are an NSA propagandist, except that the wording allows you to weasel out of it. This turns a thread about cryptography into a thread about attacking someone's particular posting style. This is not going to advance the discussion in any sort of useful direction, the only thing this can do is divide people further while cementing existing positions. If your IDS thinks well-known free software people are NSA agents because they disagree in a style you don't like, the problem is with the IDS.
        anonym29 1y ago
        If someone doesn't want to be characterized as sounding like an NSA advocate, perhaps they should consider not advocating for NSA objectives. Anyway, sounds like I'm being dismissed for being "divisive" despite raising substantive security concerns, just like djb. Readers: form your own conclusions about the repetitive patterns here; don't listen to the people telling you not to trust your own eyes. Note the hallmarks: zero engagement with the substance of the critique (functional equivalence), ad-hom strawman attacks against my character as a response to a misrepresentation of my position, emotional manipulation techniques: demanding focus on tone / civility, maligning moral character of opponent (accusations of divisiveness), still trying to reframe a critique about behavior into an attack against identity that it isn't.
- skininthegame25 1y ago
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- skininthegame25 1y ago
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- skininthegame25 1y ago
  ML-KEM as standardized by NIST is weaker than Kyber.

Kyber is not known to be weaker than any other well used algorithm.

by mjg59 1y ago

Kyber is not known to be weaker than any other well used algorithm.

Another strawman. No one in this thread said Kyber was known to be weaker. Just that elliptic curve cryptography is well tested, better understood as a consequence of being used in production longer, and that removing it opens up transmissions made without both to attacks on the less widely used algorithm which would not otherwise be successful. It really seems like you're trying not to hear what's been said.

anonym29 1y ago
As a friendly reminder, you're arguing with an apologist for the security-flawed approach that the NSA advocates for and wants. There are absolutely NSA technical and psychological operations personnel who are on HN not just while at work, but for work, and this site is entirely in-scope for them to use rhetoric to try to advance their agenda, even in bad faith. I'm not saying mjg59 is an NSA propagandist / covert influencer / astroturf / sockpuppet account, but they sure fail the duck test for sounding and acting like one.
- timschmidt 1y ago
  Appreciated. I'll only note that if this is the kind of resistance DJB encountered when raising his objections it goes a long way toward explaining why he might choose to publish his complaints publicly and lends additional credibility to his position. It has certainly affected my perception of the individuals involved.
  - skininthegame25 1y ago
    [dead]
  - skininthegame25 1y ago
    [dead]
- tux3 1y ago
  Matthew Garrett is not a secret NSA propagandist. People can reasonably disagree with the djb position. His blog posts are notoriously divisive, and that doesn't make everyone on the other side a secret NSA influencer. Please assume good faith, or discussions turn into personal attacks and wild accusations.
  - anonym29 1y ago
    I didn't claim mjg59 is NSA. I said their arguments function like NSA advocacy. Whether that's by design or coincidence doesn't change the effect. When someone consistently advances positions that serve surveillance state interests using procedural deflection to avoid security substance, noting that pattern isn't a personal attack - it's public, transparent, community-led threat assessment. Pointing out behavior that is functionally indistinguishable from NSA discourse manipulation in a community technical forum - in a conversation about NSA discourse manipulation in community technical forums, no less - isn't a personal attack, it's a social IDS system firing off an alert for a known-bad signature detection.
    - tux3 1y ago
      The effect of claiming that people act like NSA propagandists is indistinguishable from claiming they are an NSA propagandist, except that the wording allows you to weasel out of it. This turns a thread about cryptography into a thread about attacking someone's particular posting style. This is not going to advance the discussion in any sort of useful direction, the only thing this can do is divide people further while cementing existing positions. If your IDS thinks well-known free software people are NSA agents because they disagree in a style you don't like, the problem is with the IDS.
      - anonym29 1y ago
        If someone doesn't want to be characterized as sounding like an NSA advocate, perhaps they should consider not advocating for NSA objectives. Anyway, sounds like I'm being dismissed for being "divisive" despite raising substantive security concerns, just like djb. Readers: form your own conclusions about the repetitive patterns here; don't listen to the people telling you not to trust your own eyes. Note the hallmarks: zero engagement with the substance of the critique (functional equivalence), ad-hom strawman attacks against my character as a response to a misrepresentation of my position, emotional manipulation techniques: demanding focus on tone / civility, maligning moral character of opponent (accusations of divisiveness), still trying to reframe a critique about behavior into an attack against identity that it isn't.
skininthegame25 1y ago
[dead]
skininthegame25 1y ago
[dead]
skininthegame25 1y ago
ML-KEM as standardized by NIST is weaker than Kyber.