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If the argument is "Why adopt a protocol that may rely on a weak algorithm without any additional protection" then I think it's up to you to demonstrate why tha
by mjg59 1y ago
If the argument is "Why adopt a protocol that may rely on a weak algorithm without any additional protection" then I think it's up to you to demonstrate why that argument doesn't apply to any other scenario as well.
- timschmidt 1y agoAgain with the strawmen. "Why adopt a protocol that may rely on a weak algorithm without any additional protection" Does not accurately represent the situation at hand. And that seems intentional. "Why weaken an existing protocol in ways we know may be exploitable?" is a more accurate representation. And I believe the burden of evidence lies on those arguing to do so.
- mjg59 1y agoKyber is not known to be weaker than any other well used algorithm.
- timschmidt 1y agoAnother strawman. No one in this thread said Kyber was known to be weaker. Just that elliptic curve cryptography is well tested, better understood as a consequence of being used in production longer, and that removing it opens up transmissions made without both to attacks on the less widely used algorithm which would not otherwise be successful. It really seems like you're trying not to hear what's been said.
- anonym29 1y agoAs a friendly reminder, you're arguing with an apologist for the security-flawed approach that the NSA advocates for and wants. There are absolutely NSA technical and psychological operations personnel who are on HN not just while at work, but for work, and this site is entirely in-scope for them to use rhetoric to try to advance their agenda, even in bad faith. I'm not saying mjg59 is an NSA propagandist / covert influencer / astroturf / sockpuppet account, but they sure fail the duck test for sounding and acting like one.
- timschmidt 1y agoAppreciated. I'll only note that if this is the kind of resistance DJB encountered when raising his objections it goes a long way toward explaining why he might choose to publish his complaints publicly and lends additional credibility to his position. It has certainly affected my perception of the individuals involved.
- skininthegame25 1y ago[dead]
- skininthegame25 1y ago[dead]
- tux3 1y agoMatthew Garrett is not a secret NSA propagandist. People can reasonably disagree with the djb position. His blog posts are notoriously divisive, and that doesn't make everyone on the other side a secret NSA influencer. Please assume good faith, or discussions turn into personal attacks and wild accusations.
- anonym29 1y agoI didn't claim mjg59 is NSA. I said their arguments function like NSA advocacy. Whether that's by design or coincidence doesn't change the effect. When someone consistently advances positions that serve surveillance state interests using procedural deflection to avoid security substance, noting that pattern isn't a personal attack - it's public, transparent, community-led threat assessment. Pointing out behavior that is functionally indistinguishable from NSA discourse manipulation in a community technical forum - in a conversation about NSA discourse manipulation in community technical forums, no less - isn't a personal attack, it's a social IDS system firing off an alert for a known-bad signature detection.
- tux3 1y ago
- skininthegame25 1y ago[dead]
- skininthegame25 1y ago[dead]
- skininthegame25 1y agoML-KEM as standardized by NIST is weaker than Kyber.