4 ms·
I perceive MS as just being in the "get people using it, accustomed to it, used to it, habituated to using it throughout their day" phase for the default free W
by PeterHolzwarth 1y ago
I perceive MS as just being in the "get people using it, accustomed to it, used to it, habituated to using it throughout their day" phase for the default free Win10/11 tier.
That little copilot icon is sitting there in the task tray, clickable and usable. I think people will, to whatever degree makes sense for them, get used to making some use of the basic free tier. Monetization / restrictions requiring some degree of limitations to upsell will eventually come for the currently half-billion or so Win11 users.
I get the point that few are currently paying for it, but there isn't all that much pressure to do so right now. That will come, later.
- chris_wot 1y agoThat little copilot icon will sit there unused and unloved by people who will, much like with online ads, screen it out whilst they do what they actually want to do.
- mulmen 1y agoAds make money because people click on them.
- chris_wot 1y agoA very tiny number of people is all you need.
- PeterHolzwarth 1y agoFor some, but what about the others? The reddit mentality of "everyone hates LLM AI tools" is just a very loud segment. What about everyone else? What about a random Joe who asks it questions to find some path through figuring out why their computer is acting all wonky? What about the people who don't know the first thing about dealing with their water heater suddenly going south, and ask it some basic questions of how to approach that problem? That is, treating it as an OS-native improvement over a search engine. The list goes on and on, and we have to take time into consideration: people may have default strong feelings against the tech in question now, but often that's just a default stance. Over time, people will dip their toes in, and make use of it to whatever degree makes sense for them. Don't mistake current vocal criticism for the end all, be all, stance that will last forever: people get used to stuff, use it a bit, or more than a bit, time passes, and the tech slowly melds itself into people's lives in some manner and in some form: MS will wait and observer, and evolve the product to suit that slow change over time.
- heavyset_go 1y ago> What about the people who don't know the first thing about dealing with their water heater suddenly going south, and ask it some basic questions of how to approach that problem? Why would you trust an LLM's advice about an appliance that can hideously disfigure you when they regularly fuck up basic advice about computers?
- userbinator 1y agoUnfortunately the majority of people don't know what they don't know. I've seen plenty of cases where an LLM is grossly wrong, but those don't seem to be publicised as much as "LLM does $awesome_thing" in the mainstream media.
- chris_wot 1y agoBecause a new icon in the system tray means nothing to people. People screen out most of what is in the system tray. If they want to find something via AI, they’ll use their web browser and go to ChatGPT or Gemini.
- olyjohn 1y agoPeople ignore the system tray so much, because it is so full of garbage, that Microsoft had to provide a "Hide unused icons" option, and eventually made a control panel to manage which icons you see. I mean I remember when browser toolbar spyware was rampant, people literally ignored half the screen when they managed to install 30 toolbars.
- dangus 1y agoThe problem is that it doesn’t actually do anything. It’s “installed” at my company but basically refuses to interact with basic company data like files in sharepoint. Is it the IT department’s fault for not enabling something? I don’t know, but does that matter? If the normal search system has access to the data why doesn’t copilot? Surely it would be trivial for Microsoft to run copilot in a way that keeps company data private so that they could actually turn it on and make it useful by default.
- w0m 1y ago> It’s “installed” at my company but basically refuses to interact with basic company data like files in sharepoint. on my work computer - there's a sep. 365Copilot app that is tied into Teams,Sharepoint, outlook, and I believe our engineering wiki. Probably other stuff I'm not aware of. I'm honestly shocked how often I use it now. If I get a random Pipeline failure; I'll copy/paste it into the o365 Copilot app - and it points me to an email I didn't notice ~3 months ago about a new policy change, and then points me to discussion thread I wasn't on ~2 weeks ago about how to get in compliance with direct links to EngWiki 'how to fix..' documentation, and an Teams link to join the breaking teams Office Hours. Just off a single ~1 sentence prompt and a stack trace It's kind of amazing.
- dingaling 1y agoIsn't that just indexed search?
- IanCal 1y agoNo. Search is part of this, but that doesn’t necessarily work from an error message. It doesn’t mean you get the relevant parts of the thread either. It certainly doesn’t mean you get a populated meeting invite for a relevant team.
- serallak 1y agoThe part where it gave you access to a thread you were not a part of seems scary to me.. In this case your absence from the thread was probably an oversight, but in general there could be a very good reason for it
- blibble 1y agoif the generic public start associating all AI with the useless "Copilot" then Microsoft will succeed in killing off the entire AI industry
- PeterHolzwarth 1y agoI think you'd be surprised at the number of average users who don't think of it as useless. As I've mentioned on comments elsewhere in this thread, remember what we here were talking about a couple years ago: LLM's killing websearch.
- hulitu 1y ago> LLM's killing websearch. Websearch is dying since some more than 10 years. It was stabbed in the back by greed (ads, SEO). LLM is just the nail in the coffin.
- monster_truck 1y agoJust like using bing by default even if it's outright terrible (to the point of randomly suggesting the suicide hotline if you use it as a calculator), I make it do dumb bullshit for more Microsoft Rewards Points. It pays for xbox game pass for myself and several friends any time we've needed it
- ryukoposting 1y agoRemember Cortana? Microsoft was eroding consumer trust in these chat-style "agent" tools before we even had a name for them.
- flykespice 1y ago> That little copilot icon is sitting there in the task tray, clickable and usable. I'm using Win 11 and I didn't even notice Copilot on my task bar until you mentioned it... I think that is a wakeup call for me to finally flash my pc to linux
- PeterHolzwarth 1y agoI get what you - a HN user - mean. But for the broader planet of Windows users, it just becomes this thing you click to get some general info from on whatever general topic, question, or need comes to mind. I think it is rapidly becoming quit banal - a thing people think of as just being another part of using their computing device. No fanfare; no fireworks; no hand-wringing over rights or privacy or training data: just a thing you click on to ask questions to as part of their normal day.
- HypnoticOcelot 1y agoWas this generated with an LLM?
- lenkite 1y agoMan, you have really bought into the LLM kool-aid. Your latest response feels as if it was spit-balled by ChatGPT.
- PeterHolzwarth 1y agoYou misunderstand me: I don't advocate - I'm just expressing what I think is likely for the billion people out there who now have access to these tools. This Hackernews community is a rather rarefied atmosphere. When we step out into the broader public, there is a whole different world going on. Whether we like it or not, that world is what we have to deal with.
- ankurdhama 1y agoWhat's worse then copilot on task bar is the copilot key on keyboard. This key doesn't even have its own scan code, instead it send something like Win+Shift+F23.
- discordance 1y agoIf that's the case, it's a very complacent strategy compared to ChatGPT, which people yearn for and automatically turn to. It also disregards a big chunk of people not using Windows, where the little Copilot icon is not built in.
- wkat4242 1y agoChatGPT also don't make a common mistake that Microsoft does, they don't squeeze on the compute too much. Microsoft does which makes it worse than ChatGPT even though it's literally the same engine. That keeps the GPT brand valuable.
- hulitu 1y ago> That little copilot icon is sitting there in the task tray, clickable and usable. A thing that gets in the way is not usable, is annoying.
- wkat4242 1y agoYes. We work a lot with Microsoft and they are very hardball on "adoption". They are always pushing us to send weekly "did you know..."? emails, yammer campaigns, seminars blablah. Very American also, this does not work in Europe where people are much less 'team players' and much more critical of advertising. I personally thinks this just pisses people off. It certainly does me. I don't want to be told what to do, especially by some vendor. If I don't want to use it I don't want to be herded into using it. If they try anyway I will just push back and start hating on it just out of annoyance. However this has always been Microsoft's adoption model. Very pushy. Unlike for example Apple's where they make things look, feel and work really good so people actually want to use it.
- wkat4242 1y ago> I get the point that few are currently paying for it, but there isn't all that much pressure to do so right now. That will come, late Yes that is inevitable. But it's exactly why I won't use it. It feels like a scam, the typical drug dealer model. Get them hooked on free stuff, and then milk their addiction. I almost only use local LLMs now. They're not as good, no. But at least they are mine and nobody will raise the price suddenly. Some pro AI models I just use with API, for the rare instance where local just doesn't cut it. It costs me a few bucks per month that way, not 20 or 30.