4 ms·

The quotes from the pro-HOA side in this article make me think even $100 is too much power to give these people.

kstrauser 1y ago
No kidding! > “You don’t have the leverage anymore to get people to change bad behavior,” Zepponi said. A neighbor who leaves their RV parked on the driveway in violation of association rules might just eat the $100 rather than pay for RV storage that is more expensive, he said. Yes, god forbid someone have the legal right to park their vehicle at their own house. I'd prefer my neighbors not do that, but I'd also like to have that right for myself if I ever needed to. And a friend had a ration of hassle when he replaced the back door on his house with one that wasn't an approved design. I'm certain he'd have been delighted to say "whatever, Karen, here's your $100 and STFU."
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  I've lived next to two different households who leave campers in their driveways all summer, between uses. I have never given a shit nor can I comprehend the mind of someone who does. I'm convinced HOAs are a product of privileged brains so used to things going their way that they have to make some shit up to act annoyed about.
  - smelendez 1y ago
    Yeah, I think letting HOAs regulate too much is actually bad public policy because it encourages petty conflict that does more harm than any good that could from houses having RVs in their driveways or whatever.
  - ip26 1y ago
    Have you ever lived in a townhome or condo? I feel the need to note that those HOA are responsible for the maintenance, repair, and upkeep of everything outside the drywall. Owner overfills dumpster? HOA is fined by sanitation. Owner dumps water on sidewalk, water freezes, neighbor slips and falls? HOA may be liable. You might celebrate, because “down with the HOA!” but when the roof needs to be replaced, it’s paid for by the HOA bank account. If that’s empty, either the roof is left to leak or you are paying a special assessment. I’m a bit biased, I’ll admit, as I once served on such an HOA that was near the brink of insolvency and wrestling with owners who would dodge their share of funding basic maintenance for years at a time. Most of the ire, perhaps, is really directed at single-family HOAs, however.
    - KumaBear 1y ago
      Sounds like a poorly managed HOA fund. If they can’t make repairs without fees
      - ip26 1y ago
        Correct. Owners protested any time raising dues was proposed, and so the old board did not raise dues by any meaningful amount for a few decades while costs rose and the exteriors aged. Unfortunately, while this was clearly a mistake in retrospect, the milk was already spilt.
        dilyevsky 1y ago
        In California the board can raise fees 20% a year without requiring a vote.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      A community fund to pay for basic shared necessities is one thing. I know people who chip in to support a shared local swimming pool. I think that sort of thing for HOAs is beautiful. It's basically a hyper-local government where you're voting to pay extra taxes to have nice quality of life things. And then their are HOAs who have strong opinions about which species of grass your lawn can have. That's that craziest, power-trippingest thing I can imagine. I'm glad the state is telling them to get out of the law enforcement business.
  - bluedino 1y ago
    We have a neighbor with two campers, and a boat. They move them around every 10 days so they don't get a ticket. They also have 7-8 vehicles, and to top it off the person who lives there is a mechanic that works out of his home garage so there's always all kinds of random cars parked there as well.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      That may be a zoning issue if they're illegally operating a business in a residential neighborhood. Forget the HOA. The local city government is probably the right jurisdiction to address that.
    - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
      What bearing does this have on your life? Genuine question.
- technion 1y ago
  I do not at all understand how these things exist. I read that the argument is it drives up property values. But how many people just avoid buying under such ridiculous rules? Doesn't that just lower value?
  - tiahura 1y ago
    It looks trashy. Just like Christmas lights left up after the holidays and pink flamingos in the yard. Communities should be empowered to self-regulate.
    - dev1ycan 1y ago
      Yet in other parts of the world you don't have this problem... maybe you need to teach people etiquette and "style" rather than use HOAs to try to correct people by force
    - anticorporate 1y ago
      One man's trash...
    - dilyevsky 1y ago
      That but also it's a fire hazard and it causes spillover of parking into the streets.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      That's all a matter of opinion. Some people like lawn flamingos. I don't, but why should I have the power to tell my neighbor they can't put a flamingo in the yard they own? At the moment, I have a sign supporting a sports team my wife and I like. My neighbor can have a lawn flamingo I don't like, and I can have a team sign they don't like. Any other way seems like absolute madness to me.
      - tiahura 1y ago
        Because part of the agreement to buy the house includes agreeing to the HOA. Your neighbors have a reasonable expectation that their neighbors will abide by the community rules. If one wants to do their own thing, they should live somewhere that doesn’t come with built-in rules.
- dilyevsky 1y ago
  I'm on the board of smallish HOA (townhouses and condos), a few points: 1. 90% of enforcement is a result of someone's complaint. HOAs can be sued by belligerent owners for not enforcing rules and it will cost everyone in the association a shitload of money. 2. Of those complaints probably at least 80% are totally legitimate grievances because the owner is doing something that's negatively affecting all of their neighbors like say park their RVs in the driveway and then 5 more cars in the shared parking spaces around the neighborhood so nobody else can park when having guests. 3. Every time we decided not to fine someone to force compliance we ended up regretting it - that just resulted in more complaints, sometimes escalations and serious damages, threats of lawsuits, and in the end we had to fine anyway. 4. These days when someone complains i just tell them there's nothing we can do because we really can't and just bug their state legislators, who seems to be living on a different fucking planet. tl;dr - most people complaining about HOAs just have no fucking clue what they are talking about and they never served on the board. Well guess that also applies to every other issue discussed on the internet.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Yep, once again why I will never, ever, EVER, live some place with an HOA.
    - dilyevsky 1y ago
      You don't have much of a choice if you want to buy a condo. Also have fun dealing with your neighbors craziness on your own, i'm sure most folks here are well equipped for that judging by comments...
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    I am on a HOA Board and our fines are so low that it would take a long time before we can foreclose on the property. Most correct the issue but then re offend. The way the rules are written we can’t make it more stringent like some homeowners would like unless there is a majority vote. We can’t even get people to attend monthly meetings or utilize the website.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  There is leverage. I am not sure why HOAs in California are not using the foreclosure option for failing to pay fines. It’s not a fast process.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
mc32 1y ago
Yes and no. HOAs can be a PITA and petty and I err on the side of less governance but some people are recalcitrant, stubborn and just set in their ways. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't. HOAs are usually clear in their rules, so if you want to live in a predictable neighborhood you can choose to live in one. IF you want more laisses faire neighborhoods you can pick one that does not have an HOA.
- mcny 1y ago
  Except when most of the city lives in an HOA, it is very difficult to convince the city to spend money in public works. Less public spending => lower taxes => less money for public spending
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Logic doesn’t make sense - it’s less for cities or counties to worry about because code enforcement and upkeep is outsourced to a certain extent
- jjav 1y ago
  > HOAs can be a PITA and petty and I err on the side of less governance but some people are recalcitrant, stubborn and just set in their ways. Recalcitrant about what? About using their own private property in a way they want (that doesn't violate city/state law)? Well yes, they sure should be. It needs to be illegal for any HOA to have any say about that.

No kidding! > “You don’t have the leverage anymore to get people to change bad behavior,” Zepponi said. A neighbor who leaves their RV parked on the driveway in violation of association rules might just eat the $100 rather than pay for RV storage that is more expensive, he said. Yes, god forbid someone have the legal right to park their vehicle at their own house. I'd prefer my neighbors not do that, but I'd also like to have that right for myself if I ever needed to. And a friend had a ration of hassle when he replaced the back door on his house with one that wasn't an approved design. I'm certain he'd have been delighted to say "whatever, Karen, here's your $100 and STFU."

ToucanLoucan 1y ago
I've lived next to two different households who leave campers in their driveways all summer, between uses. I have never given a shit nor can I comprehend the mind of someone who does. I'm convinced HOAs are a product of privileged brains so used to things going their way that they have to make some shit up to act annoyed about.
- smelendez 1y ago
  Yeah, I think letting HOAs regulate too much is actually bad public policy because it encourages petty conflict that does more harm than any good that could from houses having RVs in their driveways or whatever.
- ip26 1y ago
  Have you ever lived in a townhome or condo? I feel the need to note that those HOA are responsible for the maintenance, repair, and upkeep of everything outside the drywall. Owner overfills dumpster? HOA is fined by sanitation. Owner dumps water on sidewalk, water freezes, neighbor slips and falls? HOA may be liable. You might celebrate, because “down with the HOA!” but when the roof needs to be replaced, it’s paid for by the HOA bank account. If that’s empty, either the roof is left to leak or you are paying a special assessment. I’m a bit biased, I’ll admit, as I once served on such an HOA that was near the brink of insolvency and wrestling with owners who would dodge their share of funding basic maintenance for years at a time. Most of the ire, perhaps, is really directed at single-family HOAs, however.
  - KumaBear 1y ago
    Sounds like a poorly managed HOA fund. If they can’t make repairs without fees
    - ip26 1y ago
      Correct. Owners protested any time raising dues was proposed, and so the old board did not raise dues by any meaningful amount for a few decades while costs rose and the exteriors aged. Unfortunately, while this was clearly a mistake in retrospect, the milk was already spilt.
      - dilyevsky 1y ago
        In California the board can raise fees 20% a year without requiring a vote.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    A community fund to pay for basic shared necessities is one thing. I know people who chip in to support a shared local swimming pool. I think that sort of thing for HOAs is beautiful. It's basically a hyper-local government where you're voting to pay extra taxes to have nice quality of life things. And then their are HOAs who have strong opinions about which species of grass your lawn can have. That's that craziest, power-trippingest thing I can imagine. I'm glad the state is telling them to get out of the law enforcement business.
- bluedino 1y ago
  We have a neighbor with two campers, and a boat. They move them around every 10 days so they don't get a ticket. They also have 7-8 vehicles, and to top it off the person who lives there is a mechanic that works out of his home garage so there's always all kinds of random cars parked there as well.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    That may be a zoning issue if they're illegally operating a business in a residential neighborhood. Forget the HOA. The local city government is probably the right jurisdiction to address that.
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    What bearing does this have on your life? Genuine question.
technion 1y ago
I do not at all understand how these things exist. I read that the argument is it drives up property values. But how many people just avoid buying under such ridiculous rules? Doesn't that just lower value?
- tiahura 1y ago
  It looks trashy. Just like Christmas lights left up after the holidays and pink flamingos in the yard. Communities should be empowered to self-regulate.
  - dev1ycan 1y ago
    Yet in other parts of the world you don't have this problem... maybe you need to teach people etiquette and "style" rather than use HOAs to try to correct people by force
  - anticorporate 1y ago
    One man's trash...
  - dilyevsky 1y ago
    That but also it's a fire hazard and it causes spillover of parking into the streets.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    That's all a matter of opinion. Some people like lawn flamingos. I don't, but why should I have the power to tell my neighbor they can't put a flamingo in the yard they own? At the moment, I have a sign supporting a sports team my wife and I like. My neighbor can have a lawn flamingo I don't like, and I can have a team sign they don't like. Any other way seems like absolute madness to me.
    - tiahura 1y ago
      Because part of the agreement to buy the house includes agreeing to the HOA. Your neighbors have a reasonable expectation that their neighbors will abide by the community rules. If one wants to do their own thing, they should live somewhere that doesn’t come with built-in rules.
dilyevsky 1y ago
I'm on the board of smallish HOA (townhouses and condos), a few points: 1. 90% of enforcement is a result of someone's complaint. HOAs can be sued by belligerent owners for not enforcing rules and it will cost everyone in the association a shitload of money. 2. Of those complaints probably at least 80% are totally legitimate grievances because the owner is doing something that's negatively affecting all of their neighbors like say park their RVs in the driveway and then 5 more cars in the shared parking spaces around the neighborhood so nobody else can park when having guests. 3. Every time we decided not to fine someone to force compliance we ended up regretting it - that just resulted in more complaints, sometimes escalations and serious damages, threats of lawsuits, and in the end we had to fine anyway. 4. These days when someone complains i just tell them there's nothing we can do because we really can't and just bug their state legislators, who seems to be living on a different fucking planet. tl;dr - most people complaining about HOAs just have no fucking clue what they are talking about and they never served on the board. Well guess that also applies to every other issue discussed on the internet.
- esseph 1y ago
  Yep, once again why I will never, ever, EVER, live some place with an HOA.
  - dilyevsky 1y ago
    You don't have much of a choice if you want to buy a condo. Also have fun dealing with your neighbors craziness on your own, i'm sure most folks here are well equipped for that judging by comments...
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  I am on a HOA Board and our fines are so low that it would take a long time before we can foreclose on the property. Most correct the issue but then re offend. The way the rules are written we can’t make it more stringent like some homeowners would like unless there is a majority vote. We can’t even get people to attend monthly meetings or utilize the website.
firesteelrain 1y ago
There is leverage. I am not sure why HOAs in California are not using the foreclosure option for failing to pay fines. It’s not a fast process.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

mc32 1y ago

Yes and no. HOAs can be a PITA and petty and I err on the side of less governance but some people are recalcitrant, stubborn and just set in their ways. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't. HOAs are usually clear in their rules, so if you want to live in a predictable neighborhood you can choose to live in one. IF you want more laisses faire neighborhoods you can pick one that does not have an HOA.

mcny 1y ago
Except when most of the city lives in an HOA, it is very difficult to convince the city to spend money in public works. Less public spending => lower taxes => less money for public spending
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  Logic doesn’t make sense - it’s less for cities or counties to worry about because code enforcement and upkeep is outsourced to a certain extent
jjav 1y ago
> HOAs can be a PITA and petty and I err on the side of less governance but some people are recalcitrant, stubborn and just set in their ways. Recalcitrant about what? About using their own private property in a way they want (that doesn't violate city/state law)? Well yes, they sure should be. It needs to be illegal for any HOA to have any say about that.