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> then change it to vile stuff There is a hash that is stored with the record, and a real permalink is called a "strongRef". Dan did not mention this in his pe

> then change it to vile stuff There is a hash that is stored with the record, and a real permalink is called a "strongRef". Dan did not mention this in his permalink section, hopefully he reads this and adds some more words to his post. You normally store a strongRef and can then detect when a record content no longer matches what you expect. Bluesky does not support edits specifically for the reason you mention, adversarial edits, i.e. the social part is hard, the technical not so much. I wrote up some experiments with record editing and permalink I did: permalinks: https://verdverm.com/blog/permalinks-and-editing-on-whitewind https://verdverm.com/blog/permalinks-and-editing-on-whitewin... editing: https://verdverm.com/blog/adding-record-editing-with-history-to-atprotocol https://verdverm.com/blog/adding-record-editing-with-history... > How are things like upvotes tracked? You crawl the network to look for pointers and do something like: https://jazco.dev/2024/04/20/roaring-bitmaps/ https://jazco.dev/2024/04/20/roaring-bitmaps/ > And how is moderation/spam even handled? It's way cooler than any other system out there: https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderation https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderati... People are talking of turning both labelers and feedgens into DAGs (i.e. how do we combine each and use set operations to make interesting combinations) > can fake their own data Fake can be seen subjectively here, if it's my data and I can put anything I want in there, what is fake about it? If it's about changes, the CID hash is how we know if a record has been altered

crazygringo 1y ago
Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm still left wondering how you prevent the problem of somebody creating hundreds of accounts to upvote all their own posts. I see how the labelers work for content, but I don't see anything about user reputation. So I'm still struggling to understand what the protections are against bots? I'm struggling to understand how upvote/recommendation numbers can be trusted at all, when you want to see what's liked across the whole network and not just by your friends, but without it all being spam likes. >> can fake their own data > Fake can be seen subjectively here, if it's my data and I can put anything I want in there, what is fake about it? So it seems like the hashes (cid) are a big help, thank you. Is there anything preventing you from backdating things? Making it look like you said something or posted a photo of something last month that you didn't actually until just now? Because that seems like the other big category of content faking.
- verdverm 1y ago
  re: account spam, yea hard problem for everyone, even HN fights this Even before they become active accounts more than half of the PLC ops are spam / adversarial now (evidence indicates one individual or group from MAGA and Nostr each, should I be surprised these are the ones attacking Bluesky and ATProto?) Labelers can apply labels to accounts as well as specific records. Much of the adult content is handled this way Backdating is handled by keeping an indexedAt field in the database, both the PDS and Bsky's internal, network wide OLTP for serving queries efficiently. You can see people complain about this when the migrate over a bunch of old content with old dates and flood their feed or followers. The Bsky app now shows both indexedAt(app controlled) and createdAt (user controlled)

crazygringo 1y ago

Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm still left wondering how you prevent the problem of somebody creating hundreds of accounts to upvote all their own posts. I see how the labelers work for content, but I don't see anything about user reputation. So I'm still struggling to understand what the protections are against bots? I'm struggling to understand how upvote/recommendation numbers can be trusted at all, when you want to see what's liked across the whole network and not just by your friends, but without it all being spam likes. >> can fake their own data > Fake can be seen subjectively here, if it's my data and I can put anything I want in there, what is fake about it? So it seems like the hashes (cid) are a big help, thank you. Is there anything preventing you from backdating things? Making it look like you said something or posted a photo of something last month that you didn't actually until just now? Because that seems like the other big category of content faking.

verdverm 1y ago
re: account spam, yea hard problem for everyone, even HN fights this Even before they become active accounts more than half of the PLC ops are spam / adversarial now (evidence indicates one individual or group from MAGA and Nostr each, should I be surprised these are the ones attacking Bluesky and ATProto?) Labelers can apply labels to accounts as well as specific records. Much of the adult content is handled this way Backdating is handled by keeping an indexedAt field in the database, both the PDS and Bsky's internal, network wide OLTP for serving queries efficiently. You can see people complain about this when the migrate over a bunch of old content with old dates and flood their feed or followers. The Bsky app now shows both indexedAt(app controlled) and createdAt (user controlled)