4 ms·

What is shorter games doing for attendance, concession sales, ad sales on the TV broadcast? Seems like you want people stuck in the park for as long as possibl

What is shorter games doing for attendance, concession sales, ad sales on the TV broadcast? Seems like you want people stuck in the park for as long as possible (well, at least until they make them stop selling alcohol) but if that's too long, people simply won't go. Meanwhile, I have no idea whether longer or shorter games are better for TV. I would guess shorter is better? After an hour of the same insurance commercial over and over, you're either going to switch insurance companies or you're not. Seeing the ad 3 more times probably isn't worth very much.

jghn 1y ago
Where I am, the people I know are spending a lot less on concessions & alcohol. Not because of the shorter game but because the beer prices have become astronomical and the food quality has become terrible. So instead we pregame nearby, maybe have a beer, and then go out afterwards.
- gdulli 1y ago
  That's one of the reasons inflation doesn't scare me as much as it does other people. When it gets out of hand I always find easy ways to adjust some unnecessary spending. I'm eating healthier since I decided to spend less money on food by cooking.
  - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
    Groceries are also impacted by inflation - plenty of people scared by not being able to meet even basic alimentary needs due to increasing costs. Google a bit for “poverty meals”.
    - gdulli 1y ago
      Sure, but it was low-hanging fruit for me to cook for $4/meal rather than eat out for $15/meal. Maybe I'd have been able to cook for $3/meal if I'd started a year earlier but I was still capturing a big relative efficiency.
- next_xibalba 1y ago
  I went to a Metallica concert at a large basketball stadium this summer. The concession stands were charging $22 for a beer. I can get that same can of beer at my grocery store for $1.25.
- prokopton 1y ago
  The $1 hotdogs at Riverfront Stadium were a lot better than the $7 dogs at Great American Ballpark.
kentonv 1y ago
Well, speeding up the gameplay doesn't affect the number of commercial breaks. There are 18 guaranteed commercial breaks per game (two per inning). I suppose the density of ads goes up. Good deal for advertisers. (Additional commercial breaks may happen due to mid-inning pitching changes, and I suppose it's possible that the pitch clock affects the number of pitching changes, but it's not obvious to me whether they'd become more frequent or less frequent.) (Though separately, they did make other rules to reduce the frequency of pitching changes. But OTOH pitching changes have been gradually becoming more common for decades, with starters hardly ever completing a game anymore.)
- whartung 1y ago
  Anytime the inning ends, or the pitcher changes, there's a 2 minute pause. Save for the mid-7th inning, when it jumps to 3 minutes. I believe they are longer during the All Star Game, and, maybe, the WS. I didn't notice them longer during the recent Wild Card. They typically jump to commercial on every break. I watch all my games on delay, and for local broadcasts, it's 3 clicks on the skip button (1.5m) and we're back in the ball park. On national broadcasts, it's 4 clicks and we typically return with the ball in flight or the batter swinging at the first pitch. They cut it really close. During things like mound visits, they'll slip in an interstitial ad, that's about 10s. There's also voice over ads from the announcers during short pauses (between batters, say), which is almost always team related vs a sponsor, but not as bad as on the radio. On the radio its "First pitch brought to you by...", things like that. My nits on advertising are the shoulder patches for the players and the stencil on the mound. I particularly hate when a national broadcast layers in something over the batters eye, the locals do not do that. Last year, the Umpires were carrying sponsor patches (some crypto company), I honestly can't recall if they were wearing anything this year. The rotating banners in the back that are in park or green screens overlayed by broadcast behind the plate don't really bother me. I always find it amusing when they turn almost entirely Japanese when the Dodgers are playing. The pitch clock and shift changes have been great, I love the game. Yankee/Red Sox series last week was a nailbiter. Being at the the local park when the Yankees are in town is a blast.
xhkkffbf 1y ago
Yes, you want people around for longer. But it's bad if people don't tune in or attend because of the time commitment. So it's a tradeoff. It's amazing how much non-action time there is an NFL broadcast. Some people don't watch because of it, but I suppose enough do.
- jrockway 1y ago
  Yeah, NFL games are kind of crazy. I missed a MNF game recently and saw it on YouTube the next evening (and somehow I hadn't spoiled the score for myself). It was less than 2 hours without a single play or comment edited out. Aired live, it was closer to 3:30. Literally 1/3 commercials. It's a little excessive.
  - eszed 1y ago
    If I get into a rhythm with the "advance ten-seconds" button between plays I can get down to around an hour, without missing any plays, or pre-snap action. It'd be a lot less, even, but there are times we want to see the replays, and other times I "miss" and have to jump back. It's amazing how much dead time there is in American football.
- Djonckheere 1y ago
  Apparently less than 15-minutes of athletic action in a typical 3-hour game, with ~45-minutes devoted to advertising: [2020] How Much American Football Is Even in an American Football Broadcast? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218909 This explains why NFL RedZone exists. Fun comparison, a typical Formula 1 Grand Prix clocks in at ~1.5 hours. Live race broadcasts (e.g. Sky Sports F1) will typically show the entire race with no commercial breaks or interruptions. Same goes for MotoGP (e.g. TNT Sports), where a sprint race (~10-12 laps) takes just 25 minutes, not including post race podium and interviews. English Premier League game durations come in at just under 2-hours with a full hour of athletic action, the remaining 50% occupied by a 15-minutes halftime, substitutions, free kicks, and a mere 10-minutes of commercial interruptions.
- saghm 1y ago
iancmceachern 1y ago
My experience from going to giants games is that people leave when they want, not when the game is over (unless it's a nail biter). Same with arriving. I will say, our personal experience and the comments of many fellow fans. The games seem more engaging, fun, and it's easier to be present and attentive for the whole game. That mentality and experience makes for better attendance in future games and a general attitude of "its worth the time".
saghm 1y ago
You might be surprised. During the peak game length seasons, people would start trickling out around like the 5th or 6th inning, and by the 8th or 9th, the stadium could get surprisingly sparse even if it started full. My dad and my brothers and I used to have a habit of moving down from our bleachers seats after the seventh inning because there would be enough empty seats that we could often move into ones within the first few rows behind one of the dugouts to get a closer view of the last couple innings (and maybe increase our chances of getting a foul ball if we were lucky, which we generally weren't!). This got especially common when they tried to curb people driving home drunk by ending beer sales after the seventh inning, at which point instead of sticking around to sober up, quite a lot of people just opted to leave once they couldn't buy any more beer.

jghn 1y ago

Where I am, the people I know are spending a lot less on concessions & alcohol. Not because of the shorter game but because the beer prices have become astronomical and the food quality has become terrible. So instead we pregame nearby, maybe have a beer, and then go out afterwards.

gdulli 1y ago
That's one of the reasons inflation doesn't scare me as much as it does other people. When it gets out of hand I always find easy ways to adjust some unnecessary spending. I'm eating healthier since I decided to spend less money on food by cooking.
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  Groceries are also impacted by inflation - plenty of people scared by not being able to meet even basic alimentary needs due to increasing costs. Google a bit for “poverty meals”.
  - gdulli 1y ago
    Sure, but it was low-hanging fruit for me to cook for $4/meal rather than eat out for $15/meal. Maybe I'd have been able to cook for $3/meal if I'd started a year earlier but I was still capturing a big relative efficiency.
next_xibalba 1y ago
I went to a Metallica concert at a large basketball stadium this summer. The concession stands were charging $22 for a beer. I can get that same can of beer at my grocery store for $1.25.
prokopton 1y ago
The $1 hotdogs at Riverfront Stadium were a lot better than the $7 dogs at Great American Ballpark.

kentonv 1y ago

Well, speeding up the gameplay doesn't affect the number of commercial breaks. There are 18 guaranteed commercial breaks per game (two per inning). I suppose the density of ads goes up. Good deal for advertisers. (Additional commercial breaks may happen due to mid-inning pitching changes, and I suppose it's possible that the pitch clock affects the number of pitching changes, but it's not obvious to me whether they'd become more frequent or less frequent.) (Though separately, they did make other rules to reduce the frequency of pitching changes. But OTOH pitching changes have been gradually becoming more common for decades, with starters hardly ever completing a game anymore.)

whartung 1y ago
Anytime the inning ends, or the pitcher changes, there's a 2 minute pause. Save for the mid-7th inning, when it jumps to 3 minutes. I believe they are longer during the All Star Game, and, maybe, the WS. I didn't notice them longer during the recent Wild Card. They typically jump to commercial on every break. I watch all my games on delay, and for local broadcasts, it's 3 clicks on the skip button (1.5m) and we're back in the ball park. On national broadcasts, it's 4 clicks and we typically return with the ball in flight or the batter swinging at the first pitch. They cut it really close. During things like mound visits, they'll slip in an interstitial ad, that's about 10s. There's also voice over ads from the announcers during short pauses (between batters, say), which is almost always team related vs a sponsor, but not as bad as on the radio. On the radio its "First pitch brought to you by...", things like that. My nits on advertising are the shoulder patches for the players and the stencil on the mound. I particularly hate when a national broadcast layers in something over the batters eye, the locals do not do that. Last year, the Umpires were carrying sponsor patches (some crypto company), I honestly can't recall if they were wearing anything this year. The rotating banners in the back that are in park or green screens overlayed by broadcast behind the plate don't really bother me. I always find it amusing when they turn almost entirely Japanese when the Dodgers are playing. The pitch clock and shift changes have been great, I love the game. Yankee/Red Sox series last week was a nailbiter. Being at the the local park when the Yankees are in town is a blast.

xhkkffbf 1y ago

Yes, you want people around for longer. But it's bad if people don't tune in or attend because of the time commitment. So it's a tradeoff. It's amazing how much non-action time there is an NFL broadcast. Some people don't watch because of it, but I suppose enough do.

jrockway 1y ago
Yeah, NFL games are kind of crazy. I missed a MNF game recently and saw it on YouTube the next evening (and somehow I hadn't spoiled the score for myself). It was less than 2 hours without a single play or comment edited out. Aired live, it was closer to 3:30. Literally 1/3 commercials. It's a little excessive.
- eszed 1y ago
  If I get into a rhythm with the "advance ten-seconds" button between plays I can get down to around an hour, without missing any plays, or pre-snap action. It'd be a lot less, even, but there are times we want to see the replays, and other times I "miss" and have to jump back. It's amazing how much dead time there is in American football.
Djonckheere 1y ago
Apparently less than 15-minutes of athletic action in a typical 3-hour game, with ~45-minutes devoted to advertising: [2020] How Much American Football Is Even in an American Football Broadcast? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218909 This explains why NFL RedZone exists. Fun comparison, a typical Formula 1 Grand Prix clocks in at ~1.5 hours. Live race broadcasts (e.g. Sky Sports F1) will typically show the entire race with no commercial breaks or interruptions. Same goes for MotoGP (e.g. TNT Sports), where a sprint race (~10-12 laps) takes just 25 minutes, not including post race podium and interviews. English Premier League game durations come in at just under 2-hours with a full hour of athletic action, the remaining 50% occupied by a 15-minutes halftime, substitutions, free kicks, and a mere 10-minutes of commercial interruptions.
saghm 1y ago

iancmceachern 1y ago

My experience from going to giants games is that people leave when they want, not when the game is over (unless it's a nail biter). Same with arriving. I will say, our personal experience and the comments of many fellow fans. The games seem more engaging, fun, and it's easier to be present and attentive for the whole game. That mentality and experience makes for better attendance in future games and a general attitude of "its worth the time".

saghm 1y ago

You might be surprised. During the peak game length seasons, people would start trickling out around like the 5th or 6th inning, and by the 8th or 9th, the stadium could get surprisingly sparse even if it started full. My dad and my brothers and I used to have a habit of moving down from our bleachers seats after the seventh inning because there would be enough empty seats that we could often move into ones within the first few rows behind one of the dugouts to get a closer view of the last couple innings (and maybe increase our chances of getting a foul ball if we were lucky, which we generally weren't!). This got especially common when they tried to curb people driving home drunk by ending beer sales after the seventh inning, at which point instead of sticking around to sober up, quite a lot of people just opted to leave once they couldn't buy any more beer.