4 ms·

Americans elected a mob boss to their highest office and he also appointed many of the judges in the legal system. As a corporation your choices are to give in

by argsnd 1y ago

Americans elected a mob boss to their highest office and he also appointed many of the judges in the legal system. As a corporation your choices are to give in or to get crushed.

stefan_ 1y ago
Yes, they all conveniently gave in the moment after. Google just paid another $25M. Is this the lawful order defence?
davidw 1y ago
Giving your lunch money to a bully all but guarantees they'll be back for more.
- nerdponx 1y ago
  This is literally how extortion by organized crime works. It's the same mechanism. Of course they'll be back for more, but if you don't give them your money, they will beat the shit out of you and then come back for more anyway. You know what's expected of you, and the alternatives are generally much worse. Incidentally it's also a textbook presentation of the Manufacturing Consent Propaganda model, except it's not only propaganda, it's an outright authoritarian coup.
  - thrance 1y ago
    Except Apple and Google are incredibly powerful, and the Trump administration has shown they mostly fail to follow on their threats (yet, at least). If some entities are able to stand up against the nascent fascist regime, it's them. But as we all know, corporations and fascism are like peanut butter and jelly.
    - argsnd 1y ago
      I think the Trump administration has been rather good at following through on their threats. US import tariffs are insanely high right now and he's been able to successfully fire whoever he wants. All Trump has to do to destroy eg. Apple is get rid of the exemption from the tariffs they've been given for electronics manufactured in India.
      - davidw 1y ago
        I mean, Jimmy Kimmel won and Apple is way more powerful with far deeper pockets. This admin isn't all powerful, as much as they try and project that image. Apple and I think Google have a pretty big reservoir of good will among the public at large. These folks won't be in power forever, but the cowardice of people like Tim Cook will always be remembered.
        nerdponx 1y ago
        It looks OK on the surface, but it gets worse the more you look into the details. It doesn't really matter that the administration keeps losing in federal court, because the justice department doesn't really care and keeps doing the thing they were told to stop doing anyway, because there's nobody to enforce the ruling. The executive branch is being actively purged of anyone and anything that is not aligned with and loyal to Trump and the vision of Project 2025, and the institutions that might be used to halt or reverse the damage are being specifically targeted and attacked. Not only that, but all the other major industry players have already bent the knee and kissed the ring. You don't want to be the only one who doesn't, otherwise you will get singled out and targeted for extortion or worse. Several very powerful law firms were successfully targeted for political extortion by executive order. Major universities have conceded to demands. Conservative news media is in lock step with the administration and can push any narrative at any time. Threats might've already been made privately to begin antitrust enforcement, for some other form of targeted corporate punishment. Moreover, it's obvious that one of the goals of this administration is to destroy consumer protections and employee protections, creating an environment where powerful corporations can do whatever they want in the name of profit. As the CEO of a large corporation, you might be actively under pressure to cooperate and collaborate. So there is a large downside to resistance, and a large upside to playing along. Tim Cook will be remembered as one of dozens and dozens of cowards, but only in private whispers, because if they say it in public they will be blacklisted or worse.
        davidw 1y ago
        It's all very bad, for sure, but doomerism is capitulation. https://www.liberalcurrents.com/democrats-must-embrace-war-mindset/ https://www.liberalcurrents.com/democrats-must-embrace-war-m... > This is the thing: dooming is itself a liberation from the burden of choice. If everything is ruined forever, if your allies have already forsaken you, if the battle is already lost, you aren't responsible for your choices. They can't affect the outcome. You're free. Dooming is another escape from the burden of war mindset. Clausewitz knew this as well: "As a rule, most men would rather believe bad news than good,"
    - lovelearning 1y ago
      There seems to be an implicit assumption here that Apple and Google managements don't like Trump's ICE policies and are doing all this under duress. But is this a valid assumption? Or is it mere wishful thinking? If almost half the US population revoted Trump into power, it's logical to assume the same proportions apply to the managements and employees of A and G too. I'm against granting any management any benefit of the doubt without solid proof they deserve it.
      - thrance 1y ago
        For sure, that's what I implied in that "corporations and fascism" line. If they wanted to make a stand, I believe they could. But as history tells us, businesses are a fascist's biggest allies, so they won't.
watwut 1y ago
Nah. They are the most powerful members of a society. It is ridiculous how they get treated with less expectations then anyone else. They have choices and they are consciously choosing this.
jordanb 1y ago
Corporations and especially Silicon Valley were pushing hard for Trump because they were furious about Lena Khan. Don't let them pretend that they are innocent in all of this. They're all polishing their jackboots right now.
- argsnd 1y ago
  Oh I have no sympathy for them. I understand their behaviour but to me it's just a reason to avoid patronising American companies. I also think there's a little bit of quid pro quo happening here - in exchange for giving into Trump's whims and kissing the ring they've had antitrust investigations watered down and patent disputes solved.
mdhb 1y ago
I think the world’s richest company could have at least attempted to push back. They aren’t some helpless victim here.

by argsnd 1y ago

Americans elected a mob boss to their highest office and he also appointed many of the judges in the legal system. As a corporation your choices are to give in or to get crushed.

stefan_ 1y ago

Yes, they all conveniently gave in the moment after. Google just paid another $25M. Is this the lawful order defence?

davidw 1y ago

Giving your lunch money to a bully all but guarantees they'll be back for more.

nerdponx 1y ago
This is literally how extortion by organized crime works. It's the same mechanism. Of course they'll be back for more, but if you don't give them your money, they will beat the shit out of you and then come back for more anyway. You know what's expected of you, and the alternatives are generally much worse. Incidentally it's also a textbook presentation of the Manufacturing Consent Propaganda model, except it's not only propaganda, it's an outright authoritarian coup.
- thrance 1y ago
  Except Apple and Google are incredibly powerful, and the Trump administration has shown they mostly fail to follow on their threats (yet, at least). If some entities are able to stand up against the nascent fascist regime, it's them. But as we all know, corporations and fascism are like peanut butter and jelly.
  - argsnd 1y ago
    I think the Trump administration has been rather good at following through on their threats. US import tariffs are insanely high right now and he's been able to successfully fire whoever he wants. All Trump has to do to destroy eg. Apple is get rid of the exemption from the tariffs they've been given for electronics manufactured in India.
    - davidw 1y ago
      I mean, Jimmy Kimmel won and Apple is way more powerful with far deeper pockets. This admin isn't all powerful, as much as they try and project that image. Apple and I think Google have a pretty big reservoir of good will among the public at large. These folks won't be in power forever, but the cowardice of people like Tim Cook will always be remembered.
      - nerdponx 1y ago
        It looks OK on the surface, but it gets worse the more you look into the details. It doesn't really matter that the administration keeps losing in federal court, because the justice department doesn't really care and keeps doing the thing they were told to stop doing anyway, because there's nobody to enforce the ruling. The executive branch is being actively purged of anyone and anything that is not aligned with and loyal to Trump and the vision of Project 2025, and the institutions that might be used to halt or reverse the damage are being specifically targeted and attacked. Not only that, but all the other major industry players have already bent the knee and kissed the ring. You don't want to be the only one who doesn't, otherwise you will get singled out and targeted for extortion or worse. Several very powerful law firms were successfully targeted for political extortion by executive order. Major universities have conceded to demands. Conservative news media is in lock step with the administration and can push any narrative at any time. Threats might've already been made privately to begin antitrust enforcement, for some other form of targeted corporate punishment. Moreover, it's obvious that one of the goals of this administration is to destroy consumer protections and employee protections, creating an environment where powerful corporations can do whatever they want in the name of profit. As the CEO of a large corporation, you might be actively under pressure to cooperate and collaborate. So there is a large downside to resistance, and a large upside to playing along. Tim Cook will be remembered as one of dozens and dozens of cowards, but only in private whispers, because if they say it in public they will be blacklisted or worse.
        davidw 1y ago
        It's all very bad, for sure, but doomerism is capitulation. https://www.liberalcurrents.com/democrats-must-embrace-war-mindset/ https://www.liberalcurrents.com/democrats-must-embrace-war-m... > This is the thing: dooming is itself a liberation from the burden of choice. If everything is ruined forever, if your allies have already forsaken you, if the battle is already lost, you aren't responsible for your choices. They can't affect the outcome. You're free. Dooming is another escape from the burden of war mindset. Clausewitz knew this as well: "As a rule, most men would rather believe bad news than good,"
  - lovelearning 1y ago
    There seems to be an implicit assumption here that Apple and Google managements don't like Trump's ICE policies and are doing all this under duress. But is this a valid assumption? Or is it mere wishful thinking? If almost half the US population revoted Trump into power, it's logical to assume the same proportions apply to the managements and employees of A and G too. I'm against granting any management any benefit of the doubt without solid proof they deserve it.
    - thrance 1y ago
      For sure, that's what I implied in that "corporations and fascism" line. If they wanted to make a stand, I believe they could. But as history tells us, businesses are a fascist's biggest allies, so they won't.

watwut 1y ago

Nah. They are the most powerful members of a society. It is ridiculous how they get treated with less expectations then anyone else. They have choices and they are consciously choosing this.

jordanb 1y ago

Corporations and especially Silicon Valley were pushing hard for Trump because they were furious about Lena Khan. Don't let them pretend that they are innocent in all of this. They're all polishing their jackboots right now.

argsnd 1y ago
Oh I have no sympathy for them. I understand their behaviour but to me it's just a reason to avoid patronising American companies. I also think there's a little bit of quid pro quo happening here - in exchange for giving into Trump's whims and kissing the ring they've had antitrust investigations watered down and patent disputes solved.

mdhb 1y ago

I think the world’s richest company could have at least attempted to push back. They aren’t some helpless victim here.