4 ms·

I’ve been reading a lot lately about the negative effects of inflammation. Recently, I came across an article arguing that it’s inflammation in the blood vessel

I’ve been reading a lot lately about the negative effects of inflammation. Recently, I came across an article arguing that it’s inflammation in the blood vessels (not cholesterol itself) that causes cardiovascular problems. Now this article blaming inflammation for cancer. But isn’t inflammation also a useful and necessary process in the body? If it’s so harmful, should we all be taking anti-inflammatory drugs? Of course, those have their own downsides too (my doctor mentioned that ibuprofen can even affect hearing).

7thaccount 1y ago
I think some inflammation is natural and a response to infection, but when your entire diet and lifestyle lead to daily inflammation, I'm guessing it's really bad.
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  If inflammation weren't a trade-off, we'd have perpetual inflammation. That kind of thing is rapidly tweaked by evolution.
- baby 1y ago
  I remember reading this article on why muslim countries had low rate of cancers. Apparently it was the yearly month-long fast + all the spices that people ate daily (anti inflammatory)
  - breppp 1y ago
    My guess is underdeveloped health systems means less diagnosis
  - Earw0rm 1y ago
    They don't, as a rule, drink alcohol, which helps quite a bit for GI, breast and liver cancers. Wear modest clothing, cover themselves up from the sun. Although that can lead to Vit D deficiency when they move to high latitude countries. And they don't eat bacon, sausages, salami or other salt-cured pork products which are thought to promote some GI cancers due to the curing process forming nitrosamines.
    - bamboozled 1y ago
      Smoking seems common though.
neuronic 1y ago
Probably a "the dose makes the poison" kind of thing? Constant inflammation and exposure to inflammatory agents could eventually raise the likelihood of cell damage in affected tissues, no? The immune system is highly highly complicated and directed by huge networks of genes and molecules all up- and downregulating each other depending on internal and external factors. If things go "off balance" in this system the consequences could be dire. You dont want firefighters hosing down your house from the inside when there is no fire anymore either.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  Ever since I had covid 5 years ago, my body has been stuck under a constant firehouse shower. High heart rate, shortness of breath, and a constant pressure in my upper chest. I know it's immune related, because when I am coming down with a cold the symptoms all vanish. Like the firehose has an actual fire to fight.
  - baby 1y ago
    When you're sick your body releases all sorts of stuff that makes you super relaxed and force you to chill/rest, so might be completely unrelated
    - Earw0rm 1y ago
      Which is in itself odd, as there's no obvious mechanism (at least in a developed nation inhabitant who typically have considerable fat reserves and ready availability of food) for the immune system to need resources which would be otherwise used by the muscles. Like we can all feel the lack of "energy", but that energy isn't the same thing as actual calories, glycogen, blood O2 and so on. Presumably a lot of CFS conditions are relating to that biological switch - "you're ill, rest up!" - getting stuck in the "on" position, but AFAIK nobody has definitively found it despite a whole lot of looking.
throwingrocks 1y ago
The article touches on this by framing chronic inflammation (e.g. exposure to air pollution over years) as the problem.
antasvara 1y ago
Inflammation is a blunt instrument. It's one of the body's tools to contain and attack a pathogen. Without it, many bacteria and other irritants would wreak havoc on the body. As allergies and (to an extent) COVID have shown, inflammation can also be dangerous. Too much acute inflammation can cause essential body functions to shut down or function incorrectly. Point being that inflammation is "good" when the alternative is an infection running rampant in your body. But it's "worse" for your body than the baseline, so chronic inflammation is bad for you (and seems to increase cancer risk). Anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen are good for knocking down inflammation, but they have a suite of side effects unrelated to this function that make them terrible for prolonged use. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that these side effects are way worse than the benefits of reduced chronic inflammation. More generally, reducing inflammation across the board leaves you open to infection. It's why we don't prescribe steroids long-term in most patients: the downside of reduced immune response vastly outweighs the benefit for generally healthy patients. It's only considered if the condition (like your body attacking an organ transplant) is more dangerous than the reduced immune response.
- mewpmewp2 1y ago
  As far as I understand exercise and working out also causes inflammation in order to repair and/or build your muscle. So taking ibuprofen might hurt your ability to recover etc. Immune system and inflammation is clearly very important process for humans for many things even beyond illnesses. Like inflammation is body's way to repair and adapt to the environment.
- breadwinner 1y ago
  Would it be accurate to say enteric coated baby aspirin reduces risk of stroke due to its blood thinning properties, but since it is anti-inflammatory, also reduces risk of atherosclerosis and now cancer?
  - alexanderdmitri 1y ago
    According to this there is a link between aspirin and successfully fighting cancer: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1d4n119xr7o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1d4n119xr7o
mewpmewp2 1y ago
Also doesn't working out cause inflammation and when you take ibuprofen you hurt your ability to build/repair muscle and recover because of reduced inflammation?
- derektank 1y ago
  Exercising also results in the body producing more anti-inflammatory myokines
FollowingTheDao 1y ago
There is a big difference between acute inflammation and chronic inflammation. Infection causes acute inflammation. Air pollution causes chronic inflammation. Infection can also cause chronic or out of control inflammation which can aslo kill you via a cytokine storm.
stult 1y ago
Our inflammation responses evolved in part to help us fight off pathogens, but people in modern society are exposed to far, far fewer pathogens than even our immediate ancestors were as recently as 70 years ago when diseases like polio and mumps were still common. As a result many people have an overactive inflammation response relative to the pathogen load to which they are regularly exposed. In extreme cases, that can manifest as autoimmune disease, when overly strong inflammation or other immune responses end up attacking not just foreign pathogens but the person's body itself. As another poster said, inflammation is a blunt instrument. It's a knob that can only be turned up or down, across the entire body. If you turn it down too far, you risk infectious illness. And if you turn it up too far, you risk damage to your organs. Interestingly, there was a substantial increase in the incidence of autoimmune diseases in Europe in the generations following the Black Death, probably because people with excessively strong immune responses were more likely to survive exposure to plague bacteria. Celiacs or MS will kill someone much, much more slowly than bubonic plague will, so a disproportionate number of people with those or similar autoimmune disorders were able to survive to pass on their genes.

7thaccount 1y ago

I think some inflammation is natural and a response to infection, but when your entire diet and lifestyle lead to daily inflammation, I'm guessing it's really bad.

wizzwizz4 1y ago
If inflammation weren't a trade-off, we'd have perpetual inflammation. That kind of thing is rapidly tweaked by evolution.
baby 1y ago
I remember reading this article on why muslim countries had low rate of cancers. Apparently it was the yearly month-long fast + all the spices that people ate daily (anti inflammatory)
- breppp 1y ago
  My guess is underdeveloped health systems means less diagnosis
- Earw0rm 1y ago
  They don't, as a rule, drink alcohol, which helps quite a bit for GI, breast and liver cancers. Wear modest clothing, cover themselves up from the sun. Although that can lead to Vit D deficiency when they move to high latitude countries. And they don't eat bacon, sausages, salami or other salt-cured pork products which are thought to promote some GI cancers due to the curing process forming nitrosamines.
  - bamboozled 1y ago
    Smoking seems common though.

neuronic 1y ago

Probably a "the dose makes the poison" kind of thing? Constant inflammation and exposure to inflammatory agents could eventually raise the likelihood of cell damage in affected tissues, no? The immune system is highly highly complicated and directed by huge networks of genes and molecules all up- and downregulating each other depending on internal and external factors. If things go "off balance" in this system the consequences could be dire. You dont want firefighters hosing down your house from the inside when there is no fire anymore either.

Workaccount2 1y ago
Ever since I had covid 5 years ago, my body has been stuck under a constant firehouse shower. High heart rate, shortness of breath, and a constant pressure in my upper chest. I know it's immune related, because when I am coming down with a cold the symptoms all vanish. Like the firehose has an actual fire to fight.
- baby 1y ago
  When you're sick your body releases all sorts of stuff that makes you super relaxed and force you to chill/rest, so might be completely unrelated
  - Earw0rm 1y ago
    Which is in itself odd, as there's no obvious mechanism (at least in a developed nation inhabitant who typically have considerable fat reserves and ready availability of food) for the immune system to need resources which would be otherwise used by the muscles. Like we can all feel the lack of "energy", but that energy isn't the same thing as actual calories, glycogen, blood O2 and so on. Presumably a lot of CFS conditions are relating to that biological switch - "you're ill, rest up!" - getting stuck in the "on" position, but AFAIK nobody has definitively found it despite a whole lot of looking.

throwingrocks 1y ago

The article touches on this by framing chronic inflammation (e.g. exposure to air pollution over years) as the problem.

antasvara 1y ago

Inflammation is a blunt instrument. It's one of the body's tools to contain and attack a pathogen. Without it, many bacteria and other irritants would wreak havoc on the body. As allergies and (to an extent) COVID have shown, inflammation can also be dangerous. Too much acute inflammation can cause essential body functions to shut down or function incorrectly. Point being that inflammation is "good" when the alternative is an infection running rampant in your body. But it's "worse" for your body than the baseline, so chronic inflammation is bad for you (and seems to increase cancer risk). Anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen are good for knocking down inflammation, but they have a suite of side effects unrelated to this function that make them terrible for prolonged use. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that these side effects are way worse than the benefits of reduced chronic inflammation. More generally, reducing inflammation across the board leaves you open to infection. It's why we don't prescribe steroids long-term in most patients: the downside of reduced immune response vastly outweighs the benefit for generally healthy patients. It's only considered if the condition (like your body attacking an organ transplant) is more dangerous than the reduced immune response.

mewpmewp2 1y ago
As far as I understand exercise and working out also causes inflammation in order to repair and/or build your muscle. So taking ibuprofen might hurt your ability to recover etc. Immune system and inflammation is clearly very important process for humans for many things even beyond illnesses. Like inflammation is body's way to repair and adapt to the environment.
breadwinner 1y ago
Would it be accurate to say enteric coated baby aspirin reduces risk of stroke due to its blood thinning properties, but since it is anti-inflammatory, also reduces risk of atherosclerosis and now cancer?
- alexanderdmitri 1y ago
  According to this there is a link between aspirin and successfully fighting cancer: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1d4n119xr7o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1d4n119xr7o

mewpmewp2 1y ago

Also doesn't working out cause inflammation and when you take ibuprofen you hurt your ability to build/repair muscle and recover because of reduced inflammation?

derektank 1y ago
Exercising also results in the body producing more anti-inflammatory myokines

FollowingTheDao 1y ago

There is a big difference between acute inflammation and chronic inflammation. Infection causes acute inflammation. Air pollution causes chronic inflammation. Infection can also cause chronic or out of control inflammation which can aslo kill you via a cytokine storm.

stult 1y ago

Our inflammation responses evolved in part to help us fight off pathogens, but people in modern society are exposed to far, far fewer pathogens than even our immediate ancestors were as recently as 70 years ago when diseases like polio and mumps were still common. As a result many people have an overactive inflammation response relative to the pathogen load to which they are regularly exposed. In extreme cases, that can manifest as autoimmune disease, when overly strong inflammation or other immune responses end up attacking not just foreign pathogens but the person's body itself. As another poster said, inflammation is a blunt instrument. It's a knob that can only be turned up or down, across the entire body. If you turn it down too far, you risk infectious illness. And if you turn it up too far, you risk damage to your organs. Interestingly, there was a substantial increase in the incidence of autoimmune diseases in Europe in the generations following the Black Death, probably because people with excessively strong immune responses were more likely to survive exposure to plague bacteria. Celiacs or MS will kill someone much, much more slowly than bubonic plague will, so a disproportionate number of people with those or similar autoimmune disorders were able to survive to pass on their genes.