4 ms·

Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI ch

by taneq 1y ago

Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI chip then if you’re unlucky want it turns out to be counterfeit, your thing might get bricked. :/

matt-p 1y ago
Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.
- taneq 1y ago
  The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-person hardware procurement department with the time to do a deep dive into every shipment of every component. These are chips you use when you're used to serial ports and have had USB foisted upon you and just want to sell the thing you built. Sending it back only punishes the OEM you bought the weird niche thing off, and they likely had no indication that the chips they paid genuine prices for were counterfeit. If they try to get a refund from Alibaba or DigiKey or whoever, they'll politely be told to fuck off, if they get a response at all. I totally understand why FTDI chose to take this path, but I also think it was a poor choice overall and I now avoid FTDI products (which back in the day I happily used, before all this) just in case I get caught up in the BS.
  - matt-p 1y ago
    Cisco use these chips inside their switches, they are all over the place. I still think this is good, I buy them from RS, any authorised distributor will not tell you to 'fuck off', if they do please forward it to FTDI. If you're buying off Alibaba or eBay then that's on you. Sorry.
  - ThrowawayR2 1y ago
    Penalizing FTDI for the OEM's negligence in not properly securing their supply chain? That's absurd. It is 100% the responsibility of the OEM to vet their suppliers to ensure that they know what's going into their product.
poizan42 1y ago
Importantly not just counterfeit chips but also completely legal clone chips. For context, for a long time Windows did not have a driver for the CDC serial communication class out of the box. But FTDI had made good Windows drivers, and their interface was easy to clone. So for a time there was a market for making 3rd-party chips implementing FTDI's interface and copying their USB id to be recognized by their driver[0]. Of course some unscrupulous sellers would inevitably try to pass those of as genuine FTDI chips. FTDI was probably not happy with either of them, with the clone chips manufacturer piggybacking of their hard work. But they could only do anything about the counterfeits, so they kinda ignored the existence of legal clones and in all their public communication only talked about taking steps to shut down counterfeit chips (most likely well knowing that their were also destroying chips of legitimate competitors). [0] Clearly allowed at least in the US under the decision in Sega v. Accolade
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  Many Chip VID:PID listed in > lsusb or C:\> Get-PnpDevice -PresentOnly | Where-Object { $_.InstanceId -match '^USB' } | Format-List are considered copyrighted IP in North America. Many of the paid device codes are often not like other Communication Device Class drivers or free generic HID devices listed in the USB standard. Early next year Windows 11 will be locking out unsigned drivers from the OS. Good for keeping the kernel more consistent, but could be bad for hobby hardware drivers. Personally, I think it is ludicrous, but for 83% of users they have no other option than pay $6.32 for a $$0.43 chip. =3
  - matt-p 1y ago
    The copycats are free to write thier own drivers though? They could even open source them. Why should they get to steal them from FDTI? I do agree the cost of the chips are insane however, they're ultimately worth paying for because of the driver support and 'just works' factor.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
      > copycats are free to write thier own drivers though? Sure, anyone paying for a Microsoft certified hardware driver, USB PID allocation, and cert fees every year... Everyone else is not allowed in the OS we paid for... It is a decades old serial port emulation chip... Racketeering with a computer should still be illegal. =3

by taneq 1y ago

matt-p 1y ago

Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.

taneq 1y ago
The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-person hardware procurement department with the time to do a deep dive into every shipment of every component. These are chips you use when you're used to serial ports and have had USB foisted upon you and just want to sell the thing you built. Sending it back only punishes the OEM you bought the weird niche thing off, and they likely had no indication that the chips they paid genuine prices for were counterfeit. If they try to get a refund from Alibaba or DigiKey or whoever, they'll politely be told to fuck off, if they get a response at all. I totally understand why FTDI chose to take this path, but I also think it was a poor choice overall and I now avoid FTDI products (which back in the day I happily used, before all this) just in case I get caught up in the BS.
- matt-p 1y ago
  Cisco use these chips inside their switches, they are all over the place. I still think this is good, I buy them from RS, any authorised distributor will not tell you to 'fuck off', if they do please forward it to FTDI. If you're buying off Alibaba or eBay then that's on you. Sorry.
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  Penalizing FTDI for the OEM's negligence in not properly securing their supply chain? That's absurd. It is 100% the responsibility of the OEM to vet their suppliers to ensure that they know what's going into their product.

poizan42 1y ago

Importantly not just counterfeit chips but also completely legal clone chips. For context, for a long time Windows did not have a driver for the CDC serial communication class out of the box. But FTDI had made good Windows drivers, and their interface was easy to clone. So for a time there was a market for making 3rd-party chips implementing FTDI's interface and copying their USB id to be recognized by their driver[0]. Of course some unscrupulous sellers would inevitably try to pass those of as genuine FTDI chips. FTDI was probably not happy with either of them, with the clone chips manufacturer piggybacking of their hard work. But they could only do anything about the counterfeits, so they kinda ignored the existence of legal clones and in all their public communication only talked about taking steps to shut down counterfeit chips (most likely well knowing that their were also destroying chips of legitimate competitors). [0] Clearly allowed at least in the US under the decision in Sega v. Accolade

Joel_Mckay 1y ago
Many Chip VID:PID listed in > lsusb or C:\> Get-PnpDevice -PresentOnly | Where-Object { $_.InstanceId -match '^USB' } | Format-List are considered copyrighted IP in North America. Many of the paid device codes are often not like other Communication Device Class drivers or free generic HID devices listed in the USB standard. Early next year Windows 11 will be locking out unsigned drivers from the OS. Good for keeping the kernel more consistent, but could be bad for hobby hardware drivers. Personally, I think it is ludicrous, but for 83% of users they have no other option than pay $6.32 for a $$0.43 chip. =3
- matt-p 1y ago
  The copycats are free to write thier own drivers though? They could even open source them. Why should they get to steal them from FDTI? I do agree the cost of the chips are insane however, they're ultimately worth paying for because of the driver support and 'just works' factor.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    > copycats are free to write thier own drivers though? Sure, anyone paying for a Microsoft certified hardware driver, USB PID allocation, and cert fees every year... Everyone else is not allowed in the OS we paid for... It is a decades old serial port emulation chip... Racketeering with a computer should still be illegal. =3