6 ms·

At work we always have 20-30x FT2232H on stock. They are super useful - they speak GPIO, I2C, SPI, parallel FIFO, etc. And their pyFTDI Python lib is great.

Joel_Mckay 1y ago
Just be careful as the counterfeit FTDI chips can have bad internal regulators etc. (Usually those small Red UART and GPIO breakout hobby PCB.) Usually better to use the vendor supplied JTAG tools, or build your own with known good silicon. Recovering FPGA hardware is always a mixed bag of what IP and documentation is available to bring up the board. Looks like nice silicon though. =3
- NoiseBert69 1y ago
  Not all FTDI series are faked. Only the most popular FT232 as far as I know. Same for ST. Only the STM32F103 is a well known bad actor in the market.
  - bloggie 1y ago
    In my experience the f103 clones fix silicon bugs and some even have improved peripherals (like i2c)
    - NoiseBert69 1y ago
      Problem is that they still using the ST HAL which is not aware of the fixes in the background. 90% of the standard stuff will work. But as soon as you dig into the exotic modes bad things will happen.
  - duskwuff 1y ago
    > Only the most popular FT232 as far as I know. Specifically, the FT232RL - a simple USB-to-serial chip. (And many of the clones are actually quite high quality.) As far as I'm aware, the FT2232H - a more complex USB to various-serial-and-parallel-protocols chip - hasn't had a counterfeiting problem, although I believe WCH has made some compatible parts. The STM32F103(C8) situation is pretty funny too. Most of the companies making clones have long since moved on from outright counterfeits and have started manufacturing their own more-or-less-compatible XYZ32F103 microcontrollers (e.g. GD32F103, AT32F103, APM32F103, CH32F103, HK32F103, etc).
    - afandian 1y ago
      I’ve always been curious why there’s no generic USB serial chip. It seems like the most obvious thing in the world. I’ve noticed ESP32 boards tend to come with one of two proprietary chips, with their own drivers. Do you know why this isn’t all standard?
      - duskwuff 1y ago
        As someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the USB CDC drivers (the closest thing to a "generic USB serial" interface) on Windows were buggy for a very long time, so vendors avoided it. It'd be feasible to make one now, but there's no compelling reason for vendors to change, either.
      - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
        The generic CDC class does not support high-speed bit-bang JTAG modes. Most ESP32 chips have a built in boot-loader for normal 3.3v UART protocols. Retro computer eMMC memory-recovery hardware like the xgecu T76 is a USB3.0 device with built in FPGA and gpio voltage-level-shifters. It may eventually solve a lot of the hobby diagnostic/recovery tool issues, but the Beta software is currently Windows only. There is a FOSS project that should port to Linux and MacOS systems soon: https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro.git https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro.git Keep in mind, the software is still being built, but I'd keep an eye open for full-speed JTAG support releases in the next year or so. YMMV Best regards =3
        duskwuff 1y ago
        minipro already runs on macOS and Linux. There's better tools out there for general-purpose IO, though - the Glasgow Explorer [1] is probably best in class, for instance. (Although one place where MiniPro-type devices outperform it is in interacting with old EEPROMs which require >5V Vpp.) [1]: https://glasgow-embedded.org/ https://glasgow-embedded.org/
- taneq 1y ago
  Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI chip then if you’re unlucky want it turns out to be counterfeit, your thing might get bricked. :/
  - matt-p 1y ago
    Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.
    - taneq 1y ago
      The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-person hardware procurement department with the time to do a deep dive into every shipment of every component. These are chips you use when you're used to serial ports and have had USB foisted upon you and just want to sell the thing you built. Sending it back only punishes the OEM you bought the weird niche thing off, and they likely had no indication that the chips they paid genuine prices for were counterfeit. If they try to get a refund from Alibaba or DigiKey or whoever, they'll politely be told to fuck off, if they get a response at all. I totally understand why FTDI chose to take this path, but I also think it was a poor choice overall and I now avoid FTDI products (which back in the day I happily used, before all this) just in case I get caught up in the BS.
      - matt-p 1y ago
        Cisco use these chips inside their switches, they are all over the place. I still think this is good, I buy them from RS, any authorised distributor will not tell you to 'fuck off', if they do please forward it to FTDI. If you're buying off Alibaba or eBay then that's on you. Sorry.
      - 1y ago

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

Just be careful as the counterfeit FTDI chips can have bad internal regulators etc. (Usually those small Red UART and GPIO breakout hobby PCB.) Usually better to use the vendor supplied JTAG tools, or build your own with known good silicon. Recovering FPGA hardware is always a mixed bag of what IP and documentation is available to bring up the board. Looks like nice silicon though. =3

NoiseBert69 1y ago
Not all FTDI series are faked. Only the most popular FT232 as far as I know. Same for ST. Only the STM32F103 is a well known bad actor in the market.
- bloggie 1y ago
  In my experience the f103 clones fix silicon bugs and some even have improved peripherals (like i2c)
  - NoiseBert69 1y ago
    Problem is that they still using the ST HAL which is not aware of the fixes in the background. 90% of the standard stuff will work. But as soon as you dig into the exotic modes bad things will happen.
- duskwuff 1y ago
  > Only the most popular FT232 as far as I know. Specifically, the FT232RL - a simple USB-to-serial chip. (And many of the clones are actually quite high quality.) As far as I'm aware, the FT2232H - a more complex USB to various-serial-and-parallel-protocols chip - hasn't had a counterfeiting problem, although I believe WCH has made some compatible parts. The STM32F103(C8) situation is pretty funny too. Most of the companies making clones have long since moved on from outright counterfeits and have started manufacturing their own more-or-less-compatible XYZ32F103 microcontrollers (e.g. GD32F103, AT32F103, APM32F103, CH32F103, HK32F103, etc).
  - afandian 1y ago
    I’ve always been curious why there’s no generic USB serial chip. It seems like the most obvious thing in the world. I’ve noticed ESP32 boards tend to come with one of two proprietary chips, with their own drivers. Do you know why this isn’t all standard?
    - duskwuff 1y ago
      As someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the USB CDC drivers (the closest thing to a "generic USB serial" interface) on Windows were buggy for a very long time, so vendors avoided it. It'd be feasible to make one now, but there's no compelling reason for vendors to change, either.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
      The generic CDC class does not support high-speed bit-bang JTAG modes. Most ESP32 chips have a built in boot-loader for normal 3.3v UART protocols. Retro computer eMMC memory-recovery hardware like the xgecu T76 is a USB3.0 device with built in FPGA and gpio voltage-level-shifters. It may eventually solve a lot of the hobby diagnostic/recovery tool issues, but the Beta software is currently Windows only. There is a FOSS project that should port to Linux and MacOS systems soon: https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro.git https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro.git Keep in mind, the software is still being built, but I'd keep an eye open for full-speed JTAG support releases in the next year or so. YMMV Best regards =3
      - duskwuff 1y ago
        minipro already runs on macOS and Linux. There's better tools out there for general-purpose IO, though - the Glasgow Explorer [1] is probably best in class, for instance. (Although one place where MiniPro-type devices outperform it is in interacting with old EEPROMs which require >5V Vpp.) [1]: https://glasgow-embedded.org/ https://glasgow-embedded.org/
taneq 1y ago
Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI chip then if you’re unlucky want it turns out to be counterfeit, your thing might get bricked. :/
- matt-p 1y ago
  Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.
  - taneq 1y ago
    The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-person hardware procurement department with the time to do a deep dive into every shipment of every component. These are chips you use when you're used to serial ports and have had USB foisted upon you and just want to sell the thing you built. Sending it back only punishes the OEM you bought the weird niche thing off, and they likely had no indication that the chips they paid genuine prices for were counterfeit. If they try to get a refund from Alibaba or DigiKey or whoever, they'll politely be told to fuck off, if they get a response at all. I totally understand why FTDI chose to take this path, but I also think it was a poor choice overall and I now avoid FTDI products (which back in the day I happily used, before all this) just in case I get caught up in the BS.
    - matt-p 1y ago
      Cisco use these chips inside their switches, they are all over the place. I still think this is good, I buy them from RS, any authorised distributor will not tell you to 'fuck off', if they do please forward it to FTDI. If you're buying off Alibaba or eBay then that's on you. Sorry.
    - 1y ago