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In general the Tahoe update has been awful for all my end users that decided to update. It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw, just yesterday we r

In general the Tahoe update has been awful for all my end users that decided to update. It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw, just yesterday we ran into an issue with Zoom. It was breaking prompts/popups and by extension the system settings, the Mac app store, iTouch, and a ton of other random stuff was broken in silent and inconsistent ways. Also all my 8gb users are noticing significantly higher memory usage compared to their previous macOS versions.

bartread 1y ago
Thanks. It sounds like the issue has already been fixed in Electron, although it will obviously take a while for all app vendors to bump versions. I'm guessing Zoom might be hitting the same overridden system call that Electron was, although I have no firm information that this is the case. Regardless, I've just checked my settings to ensure this upgrade won't be installed automatically because I wasn't sure how MacOS behaves with major upgrades, and will probably wait 2 - 3 months before letting Tahoe onto my system to allow everyone else time to get their fixes and upgrades done.
pants2 1y ago
Why do you install the Zoom app? Seems like only a way to collect data on you vs the web version that works just great.
- dewey 1y ago
  The question is why the app is bad, not why users install it.
- eptcyka 1y ago
  Web version doesn’t handle large amounts of participants in a single call, way back when I used zoom.
  - workfromspace 1y ago
    I used the web version last month for an inside town hall meeting with ~1k participants and it was as smooth as it could be.
- cpursley 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - raspasov 1y ago
    Are you implying that in order to turn a profit you need to install the Zoom app? Or that they are collection data to turn a profit.
    - cpursley 1y ago
      Yes, to convert a certain segment of our customers. They like to meet via zoom - and thats the best way I’ve found to demo our product. The web app just doesn’t cut it from the presenters side.
dheera 1y ago
The real problem is Apple being so stingy with RAM. I have 192GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) desktop and 96GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) laptop. I have never had memory issues with Electron apps, 200 Chrome tabs open, or pretty much anything, really.
- willtemperley 1y ago
  It's not a memory problem at all. It's the misuse of a private API that's at fault: https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/02/macos_26_electron_slowdown/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/02/macos_26_electron_slo...
  - kimixa 1y ago
    But if the "private API" was the only way of fixing an issue with rendering corner smoothing, was it "misuse"?
    - willtemperley 1y ago
      The developer who submitted the fix thinks so: "I need to be clear about this, Electron's "_cornerMask" override was a dirty hack that was made in an effort to fix an ancient issue with corner smoothing." https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomment-3333919649 https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomme...
- raspasov 1y ago
  Apple does have a 128GB laptop with M4 Max.
  - encom 1y ago
    It starts at 5000 USD. Five. Thousand. Dollars.
    - dheera 1y ago
      Yep. Add a usable SSD to that and it'll be 7K. I have 8TB in my laptop (cost $500) and 28TB total in my desktop (cost ~$2K) and before you start on it, yes I do use that much space. These are unheard-of numbers for a middle class Apple owner, but commonplace for a middle class non-Apple owner. Looking at the Apple website their offerings start from 0.25 TB. What a joke. My phone has that much.
h05sz487b 1y ago
Good that I went with 64 gigs for my last mac. But I'll wait for the first patch at least for this one.
- richrichardsson 1y ago
  I honestly can't figure out why people upgrade to the latest x.0.0 release of macOS. Wait for the x.1.0 : by that time Apple have fixed most of their bugs and software vendors have had time to do their side too.
  - curtisblaine 1y ago
    Because Apple nags you to do that via OS popups
    - quitit 1y ago
      I must have the very secret iOS and macOS versions which specifically require major updates be selected for installation otherwise it only continues to offer the minor updates for my current version.
  - blurrybird 1y ago
    Because they value secure devices. Apple don’t backport _all_ security patches.
    - rogerrogerr 1y ago
      The bad ones they do, especially early on. The ones they don’t back port are usually dumb stuff like “if an attacker has root and has you at gunpoint, a flaw in wallpaperd may allow them to change your desktop background”
    - richrichardsson 1y ago
      In my experience of you're on currentVersion - 1 the security is just as good. All I was saying is it's (imo) madness to upgrade immediately to the latest .0 version of macOS. The long key press for diacritics is completely broken on Tahoe : white text on a white background. All Electron apps are a bit broken until the vendors update. There's probably more problems.
Razengan 1y ago
> It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw Electron ""apps"" were are and will always be the issue. Don't bundle a whole freakin web browser and ravish my battery and RAM just to show me a damn text box. A text box that won't even have all the built-in OS features or accessibility. Downvote this to hell but Electron is a crutch for lazy Frankensteins looking for lightning to revive a monster that should have stayed dead.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  Okay gramps, time to take the meds.
  - Razengan 1y ago
    Yeah like some cocaine just to sit through your slow unoptimized shit lol Try learning more than 1 language for everything. (not directed personally @ anyone, just a peeve at the many factors enabling the necessity of something like Electron)
- typpilol 1y ago
  Do you even know how much a modern electron app with tree shaking actually uses? Most of my electron apps fully packaged are less than 100mb.
- m-schuetz 1y ago
  Dev UX is important, and the dev UX of Electron is pretty much unmatched. If you want people to not use Electron, you'll need to provide an alternative that makes it just as easy to develop sophisticated, platform-independent applications. Otherwise, no amount of complaining about Electron will ever stop devs from using Electron.
  - encom 1y ago
    I'm not a dev (by profession). I don't care about the you-ecks of developers. Electron creates objectively terrible software by every metric that matters for the end user. >sophisticated You confuse complexity for sophistication.
concinds 1y ago
I suggest that everyone here stop submitting Feedback Assistant/Radar reports. Let teenagers, college students, adults and old people buy a new Mac, experience the bugs and lack of polish and let it affect Apple's brand, consumer's preferences, and their market behavior. Apple is too big to care about anything other than market consequences. Apple is fully aware that no one likes the Radar system, that no one feels their reports count, they had an executive do a sort-of mea culpa years ago but nothing changed. My AirPods keep going silent on my new Tahoe Mac and require a disconnect and reconnect. Will I report it? No. (Besides, if you report bugs like that, Apple collects a map of your entire filesystem, every path and filename). Apple shouldn't have fired their QA team. Let them deal with any brand damage, they've earned it. I mean, did Apple really not test their new OS with Slack, Zoom or VSCode? Really? Reckless.
- nebula8804 1y ago
  They have like ~15% market share. Thats really tiny after all these years. I bet those people are mostly people who have been burned by Windows. What do you expect them to go to? Linux?
  - lwhi 1y ago
    Linux actually works well .. maybe 2026 will be the year of [...]
    - Yiin 1y ago
      it already is for me at least, because steam proton is excellent and distros are polished enough (still lacking in some edge cases, but windows is lacking more in other aspects)
  - willtemperley 1y ago
    I find the stats vary wildly. I'm seeing it's up to 31% in the US [1]. https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624976/statcounter-data-confirms-apples-mac-renaissance.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624976/statcounter-da...
- 1y ago
lowmagnet 1y ago
It made my menu bar transparent until you click an item in it, rendering it useless on my black background.
- illiac786 1y ago
  Thank you, I suspected as much, I use a black background as well.

bartread 1y ago

Thanks. It sounds like the issue has already been fixed in Electron, although it will obviously take a while for all app vendors to bump versions. I'm guessing Zoom might be hitting the same overridden system call that Electron was, although I have no firm information that this is the case. Regardless, I've just checked my settings to ensure this upgrade won't be installed automatically because I wasn't sure how MacOS behaves with major upgrades, and will probably wait 2 - 3 months before letting Tahoe onto my system to allow everyone else time to get their fixes and upgrades done.

pants2 1y ago

Why do you install the Zoom app? Seems like only a way to collect data on you vs the web version that works just great.

dewey 1y ago
The question is why the app is bad, not why users install it.
eptcyka 1y ago
Web version doesn’t handle large amounts of participants in a single call, way back when I used zoom.
- workfromspace 1y ago
  I used the web version last month for an inside town hall meeting with ~1k participants and it was as smooth as it could be.
cpursley 1y ago
[flagged]
- raspasov 1y ago
  Are you implying that in order to turn a profit you need to install the Zoom app? Or that they are collection data to turn a profit.
  - cpursley 1y ago
    Yes, to convert a certain segment of our customers. They like to meet via zoom - and thats the best way I’ve found to demo our product. The web app just doesn’t cut it from the presenters side.

dheera 1y ago

The real problem is Apple being so stingy with RAM. I have 192GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) desktop and 96GB of RAM on my (non-Apple) laptop. I have never had memory issues with Electron apps, 200 Chrome tabs open, or pretty much anything, really.

willtemperley 1y ago
It's not a memory problem at all. It's the misuse of a private API that's at fault: https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/02/macos_26_electron_slowdown/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/02/macos_26_electron_slo...
- kimixa 1y ago
  But if the "private API" was the only way of fixing an issue with rendering corner smoothing, was it "misuse"?
  - willtemperley 1y ago
    The developer who submitted the fix thinks so: "I need to be clear about this, Electron's "_cornerMask" override was a dirty hack that was made in an effort to fix an ancient issue with corner smoothing." https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomment-3333919649 https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomme...
raspasov 1y ago
Apple does have a 128GB laptop with M4 Max.
- encom 1y ago
  It starts at 5000 USD. Five. Thousand. Dollars.
  - dheera 1y ago
    Yep. Add a usable SSD to that and it'll be 7K. I have 8TB in my laptop (cost $500) and 28TB total in my desktop (cost ~$2K) and before you start on it, yes I do use that much space. These are unheard-of numbers for a middle class Apple owner, but commonplace for a middle class non-Apple owner. Looking at the Apple website their offerings start from 0.25 TB. What a joke. My phone has that much.

h05sz487b 1y ago

Good that I went with 64 gigs for my last mac. But I'll wait for the first patch at least for this one.

richrichardsson 1y ago
I honestly can't figure out why people upgrade to the latest x.0.0 release of macOS. Wait for the x.1.0 : by that time Apple have fixed most of their bugs and software vendors have had time to do their side too.
- curtisblaine 1y ago
  Because Apple nags you to do that via OS popups
  - quitit 1y ago
    I must have the very secret iOS and macOS versions which specifically require major updates be selected for installation otherwise it only continues to offer the minor updates for my current version.
- blurrybird 1y ago
  Because they value secure devices. Apple don’t backport _all_ security patches.
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    The bad ones they do, especially early on. The ones they don’t back port are usually dumb stuff like “if an attacker has root and has you at gunpoint, a flaw in wallpaperd may allow them to change your desktop background”
  - richrichardsson 1y ago
    In my experience of you're on currentVersion - 1 the security is just as good. All I was saying is it's (imo) madness to upgrade immediately to the latest .0 version of macOS. The long key press for diacritics is completely broken on Tahoe : white text on a white background. All Electron apps are a bit broken until the vendors update. There's probably more problems.

Razengan 1y ago

> It's not just electron apps that are the issue btw Electron ""apps"" were are and will always be the issue. Don't bundle a whole freakin web browser and ravish my battery and RAM just to show me a damn text box. A text box that won't even have all the built-in OS features or accessibility. Downvote this to hell but Electron is a crutch for lazy Frankensteins looking for lightning to revive a monster that should have stayed dead.

wiseowise 1y ago
Okay gramps, time to take the meds.
- Razengan 1y ago
  Yeah like some cocaine just to sit through your slow unoptimized shit lol Try learning more than 1 language for everything. (not directed personally @ anyone, just a peeve at the many factors enabling the necessity of something like Electron)
typpilol 1y ago
Do you even know how much a modern electron app with tree shaking actually uses? Most of my electron apps fully packaged are less than 100mb.
m-schuetz 1y ago
Dev UX is important, and the dev UX of Electron is pretty much unmatched. If you want people to not use Electron, you'll need to provide an alternative that makes it just as easy to develop sophisticated, platform-independent applications. Otherwise, no amount of complaining about Electron will ever stop devs from using Electron.
- encom 1y ago
  I'm not a dev (by profession). I don't care about the you-ecks of developers. Electron creates objectively terrible software by every metric that matters for the end user. >sophisticated You confuse complexity for sophistication.

concinds 1y ago

I suggest that everyone here stop submitting Feedback Assistant/Radar reports. Let teenagers, college students, adults and old people buy a new Mac, experience the bugs and lack of polish and let it affect Apple's brand, consumer's preferences, and their market behavior. Apple is too big to care about anything other than market consequences. Apple is fully aware that no one likes the Radar system, that no one feels their reports count, they had an executive do a sort-of mea culpa years ago but nothing changed. My AirPods keep going silent on my new Tahoe Mac and require a disconnect and reconnect. Will I report it? No. (Besides, if you report bugs like that, Apple collects a map of your entire filesystem, every path and filename). Apple shouldn't have fired their QA team. Let them deal with any brand damage, they've earned it. I mean, did Apple really not test their new OS with Slack, Zoom or VSCode? Really? Reckless.

nebula8804 1y ago
They have like ~15% market share. Thats really tiny after all these years. I bet those people are mostly people who have been burned by Windows. What do you expect them to go to? Linux?
- lwhi 1y ago
  Linux actually works well .. maybe 2026 will be the year of [...]
  - Yiin 1y ago
    it already is for me at least, because steam proton is excellent and distros are polished enough (still lacking in some edge cases, but windows is lacking more in other aspects)
- willtemperley 1y ago
  I find the stats vary wildly. I'm seeing it's up to 31% in the US [1]. https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624976/statcounter-data-confirms-apples-mac-renaissance.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624976/statcounter-da...
1y ago

lowmagnet 1y ago

It made my menu bar transparent until you click an item in it, rendering it useless on my black background.

illiac786 1y ago
Thank you, I suspected as much, I use a black background as well.